Political relations between UK-EU

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mancity2012_eamo said:
You keep saying that @mcfc1632 but to me looking at that statement dispassionately all you keep doing is reconfirm that there is a divide. That you are not all in this together. That you are not all leavers.

And the notion that those who voted for it, are happy with the result have more of a right to be annoyed with the government than those that figured the government would make a mess of it anyway and didn’t vote for the ideology in the first place, perhaps partly because of that foresight, is not nearly as logical as you try to make it sound.

I do get what you are saying, but no matter how many times you say it, I can’t help but scratch my head and wonder do you really think that is true or is it a crutch of sorts to lean on because of your own disposition on this subject....
Which in fairness, in my view, you have been consistent about if nothing else.

If you truly believe that you are all in this together as UK citizens and you should all be looking forward then just bear in mind that it’s all your responsibilities not to reinforce divisions.

I know we’re all just in a football forum but the political threads in particular do tend to turn into the pot calling the kettle black.

When they’re good they are very informative but when they are bad, well...,
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With respect - and I really do mean this as I generally enjoy all your posts - I think that you are missing what I mean by the comment.

I genuinely think that my comment is very valid - and that the way you are reading it only shows that I have not been clear

I put that down to my poor explanation - but late now so I will pick it up tomorrow
 
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mcfc1632 said:
Fair comment - and, looking in a mirror, my continued use of:

"We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they are faced with the prospect of a viable walk-away option – and the political will to use it”

Is no longer helpful - so I will seek not to continue with its use.

Would that be an example of what you mean?
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Currently yes, I’m sure there’ll be a time when it becomes relevant again though (every five years by the look of it!)
 
bluethrunthru said:
For the conversation to progress those pro-Brexit have to acknowledge the unfolding disasters and acknowledge that things changed fundamentally on 1/1/21 which will adversely affect our economy and our lives for years
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Do you genuinely think that is going to happen? Have you read this thread over the last two weeks?
 
bluethrunthru said:
I don't use Remainer - I failed to be one when FoM ended. I won't be a rejoiner for now because we have no hope of having the great deal we had previously. Those days are gone probably for ever - how bad things get who knows but I expect that for now as long as things are split the way they are it would have to be really bad to get us to apply to rejoin and we will get offered a thread bare deal with strings attached.

For the conversation to progress those pro-Brexit have to acknowledge the unfolding disasters and acknowledge that things changed fundamentally on 1/1/21 which will adversely affect our economy and our lives for years rather than just continue with the Project Fear agenda. And couching disease, deaths and vaccination as some sort of winning Brexit project is frankly disgusting.
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And.............

Strange that you do not at the same time suggest what (those previously known as) Remainers should acknowledge......

Just curious why it is always one way......
 
mcfc1632 said:
And.............

Strange that you do not at the same time suggest what (those previously known as) Remainers should acknowledge......

Just curious why it is always one way......
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read the first paragraph of my post to understand why that is just so much bollox
 
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mcfc1632 said:
With respect - and I really do mean this as I generally enjoy all your posts - I think that you are missing what I mean by the comment.

I genuinely think that my comment is very valid - and that the way you are reading it only shows that I have not been clear

I put that down to my poor explanation - but late now so I will pick it up tomorrow
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There’s no need to explain again.
I do understand your point of view.
I understand why it is logical to you.
I just don’t see it as generally helpful in what you say you would like the thread to be.
I see every bit as much logic in what I replied to you and equally understand why that logic would be more natural a fit for those that you claim are WUMming you.

There is no doubt some do WUM you. You know it. They know it. They know you know it and do even more so, accordingly.

But you give out as much as you take. We all get to the point where we wind people up through exasperation, at times.

What exasperates me more than anything is being told you obviously don’t understand, I’ll explain again, when really the only problem is I don’t agree.
Perhaps I just think there is a flaw in your logic. Now that does include you but I mean it generally to everyone in here. Not just you specifically.

I think as part of UK/EU relations going forward, discussing present difficulties is perfectly valid. It should be possible to do it without having to take sides all the time.

Those saying Brexit was always going to be shit, are ideologically opposed to you and from their perspective may well be right.
They don’t see the returns you do as worth it.

It’s just the reality of things.
Maybe the lot of you should get your collective heads together on the best ways to tackle the numerous current difficulties.
Maybe offer a prognosis on what will actually happen in Britain over the next 5 years. I’d definitely be interested in that.

And I do realise the same goes for us on this side of the Irish Sea. I’m more interested in how difficulties will be tackled/circumvented.

Will we just have get used to not having fresh strawberries etc at anytime of year and return to seasonal homegrown produce or will we find different trade routes and suppliers etc etc.
You get the picture.

There’s tons of good stuff in this thread, but when it descends to
‘I know you are, but what am I’.
‘He started it, no he did’
It just makes mugs out of the lot of us.
 
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mancity2012_eamo said:
It’s just the reality of things.
Maybe the lot of you should get your collective heads together on the best ways to tackle the numerous current difficulties.
Maybe offer a prognosis on what will actually happen in Britain over the next 5 years. I’d definitely be interested in that.
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A very insightful post mate. I agree with almost everything you say albeit a first step has to be an admission that these numerous (and growing) difficulties exist. Until that happens we will still be talking and missing each other.
 
hgblue said:
The pointlessness and futility of it all is part of the enduring charm of this thread ;)
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Why just this thread? I'm sure some who post only on here think that about the transfer thread and the matchday thread or the post-match thread. It's all pretty futile in terms of changing anything. At least this thread records change - there are now people who realise Brexit is crap who didn't in 2016, but they probably don't need this thread to realise that.
 
Been trawling the web fir hours this morning, well OK I went to the Guardian website, biased leftie remainers (formerly known as anyway) as they are and found this OPINION piece which makes interesting reading and can't surely reflect reality as all the Brexiteers (as they er, used to be known) on here are all solid in their continued support for and exaltation of the benefits of Brexit

Brexiters are waking up to the damage they've done | Brexit | The Guardian

Off to the Mail or the Sun next to trawl for an article telling is how well it's all going so I can take a balanced view
 
mcfc1632 said:
'We'....?

I often pointed out that you continually showed that you did not
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You often said it, never showed anything. Can you cite anything you said about fishing except (a) I didn't understand and (b) Frost was right to give the EU a period of no change in rights (but only after he'd said it)?
 
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Saddleworth2 said:
A very insightful post mate. I agree with almost everything you say albeit a first step has to be an admission that these numerous (and growing) difficulties exist. Until that happens we will still be talking and missing each other.
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Or............

The first step has to be an admission that the scale of issues that are occurring:

a) are really quite low level when compared to the massive/huge/apocalyptical scope of what was predicted by quite a few posters on here

and

b) could largely have been foreseen, assessed and planned/mitigated for, if there had been a competent government in place from 2016 onwards and one which was committed to preparing for the UK to genuinely Leave the EU, including the SM and CU.

Otherwise we will be talking past each other and some will cling to their hope for bigger issues to impact the UK

As I have said - Leavers have a lot more reason to be fucked off with the incompetent (and for the longer period - largely Remain/BRINO biased) buffoons that have been masquerading as the government since 2016
 
journolud said:
Been trawling the web fir hours this morning, well OK I went to the Guardian website, biased leftie remainers (formerly known as anyway) as they are and found this OPINION piece which makes interesting reading and can't surely reflect reality as all the Brexiteers (as they er, used to be known) on here are all solid in their continued support for and exaltation of the benefits of Brexit

Brexiters are waking up to the damage they've done | Brexit | The Guardian

Off to the Mail or the Sun next to trawl for an article telling is how well it's all going so I can take a balanced view
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At least Polly gets that half right, blame the government for fucking up brexit, not brexit itself.
 
west didsblue said:
I see you still think it's the turd polisher's fault not the turd.
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Lexit is the real life version of the unreleased film Borat 1.5, after driving across the USA in an ice cream van with the music stuck on all the time, Azamat snoring and farting in the back and the bear filling up the place with shit. Borat finally gets to the venue to meet Pamela Anderson and propose only to find that she has been cut from the film and this time it's Divine from Pink flamingos.

1611048932839.png
 
mcfc1632 said:
Or............

The first step has to be an admission that the scale of issues that are occurring:

a) are really quite low level when compared to the massive/huge/apocalyptical scope of what was predicted by quite a few posters on here

and

b) could largely have been foreseen, assessed and planned/mitigated for, if there had been a competent government in place from 2016 onwards and one which was committed to preparing for the UK to genuinely Leave the EU, including the SM and CU.

Otherwise we will be talking past each other and some will cling to their hope for bigger issues to impact the UK

As I have said - Leavers have a lot more reason to be fucked off with the incompetent (and for the longer period - largely Remain/BRINO biased) buffoons that have been masquerading as the government since 2016
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low level = business failing. Raab would be proud of that.

I don't think we are seeing the half of it yet. Fish is merely the first because nothing rots faster than a bad fish deal (wasn't Brexit supposed to hand a massive win to the fishing industry?). Small business exporters, haulage companies, motor parts business's all calling out significant new costs and friction. In fact anyone that is importing or exporting from the single market and from GB to/from NI.

Some of it could have been mitigated for sure, but it hasn't been. Some of it will remain as a inconvenient truth of leaving the single market. Whatever, it is downgrading what we had, not improving it.

What we are seeing in the press increasingly is the reframing of the argument to Brexit is still a good thing its just been implemented in the wrong way. Thats dishonest.

Forget what some posters said once upon a time. The fact is that Brexit is now impacting severely on several sectors of the economy. New emerging problems are highlighted every day. Can you bring yourself to show a little empathy for those that are impacted significantly and a little honesty to admit that there are real today problems?
 
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