Political relations between UK-EU

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Fode N The Hole said:
Lexit is the real life version of the unreleased film Borat 1.5, after driving across the USA in an ice cream van with the music stuck on all the time, Azamat snoring and farting in the back and the bear filling up the place with shit. Borat finally gets to the venue to meet Pamela Anderson and propose only to find that she has been cut from the film and this time it's Divine from Pink flamingos.

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Like the analogy but Lexit was the film that was never released due to the lack of coverage.
 
FT reporting ‘UK ports British Ports Association demands govt asks EU/France take more pragmatic approach to Brexit border controls.’

Or non-EU country wants EU countries to waive border controls mandated by law and by treaty.

Yeah, that’s how the EU works. Always happy to do what non-members ask it to do.
 
Rascal said:
Like the analogy but Lexit was the film that was never released due to the lack of coverage.
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It's a bootleg snuff film masquerading as an independent arthouse project.

It got got minimal coverage because it had no support of those in positions of power or any popular support.

You can't make the case to leave the EU on the basis of communist revolutionary theory or Gramscian ideas of class. Values and identity is much more powerful than economic arguments of redistribution and the like. The Brexiteers vision was inherently rooted in the past and that is a big part why it won, many people looking back with rose tinted specs to a time and place that they didn't live in or even learn much about. As I have said before , my experience is most people look backwards not forwards in how they view their politics. British Rail was raised whenever people spoke about nationalisation or public ownership (despite the fact that BR was for a significant part of its history increasingly privatised), they don't look to examples in other countries in the present day. The narrative about BR is more important than the facts and truth, you could quote articles and studies and all manner of evidence and somebody who raised BR would probably turn around and say I was there and know how it was.

Both Owen Jones and Paul Mason have come to realisation that Brexit was always intrinsically and inevitably a racist xenophobic project despite having different viewpoints and leanings.

As Owen Jones raises the point, most people don't want to leave the EU because of neo-liberalism. Most people wouldn't even know what neoliberal economics is, there are still prominent posters on this sub forum who refer to it frequently without actually knowing what it really means. Most people don't have the idea (certainly not fully articulated) that you can have different kinds of capitalism, or the grasp that the capitalism in the UK in this moment is different from how it is expressed in a different country or in a different decade. Why else would austerity have been so successful in enchanting the three major parties for two straight elections in 2010 and 2015? You can't fight the kind of political and economical battles that you want to fight Rascal in a world where you don't have popular appeal and popular support but childish analogies like household budgets take root.



www.newstatesman.com

The UK must embrace a European future or accept isolation and decline

As the world divides into regional superpowers – the US, China and the EU – Britain cannot stand alone.
www.newstatesman.com www.newstatesman.com
 
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squirtyflower said:
The EU’s record on vaccinations has been appalling up to now.
They were slow at procuring enough vaccine, at passing the vaccines to be used and have been even slower in delivering the vaccines to patients.

It has been so poor that Germany even went alone and bought their own.

If you add up all the EU vaccinations together they don’t come to a quarter of the UK total.
Bureaucracy at its finest.
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If Germany could do its own vaccination programme then we could've if we were still in the eu?
 
stonerblue said:
If Germany could do its own vaccination programme then we could've if we were still in the eu?
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All countries can. Denmark is doing well with its vaccination roll out, France not so well. It’s country specific and highlights strengths and weaknesses in a country’s healthcare system.

You can see the same with the US. Some States doing poorly, yet others like West Virginia setting a good pace for vaccination.

The Brexit guys need a ‘win’, hence glossing over our high death rate and focussing on the vaccination program. Personally, hats off to us, the NHS and everyone else on getting on with it. Couldn’t give a fuck one way or the other about Brexit when it comes to fucking this virus off.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
This could be made into a separate thread if Mods feel it isn’t on topic...

...but I’ve got a few questions here regarding what peoples’ actual point to their involvement in this thread is:

What did all the most vociferous Remainers on here actually do to prevent Britain leaving the EU?

There’s a very hard obsession with seemingly wanting to bask in some sort of reflected glory of being proven right (what the point in that is I have no idea!); but if you were so adamant Brexit was a bad idea, and when you saw the appallingly shit efforts put in by the Remain campaign... what did you all actually do about it?

Did you demand to speak to your local MP to question the inept or even complete lack of tactics used by the Remain campaign?

Did you create blogs/video channels/websites, did you organise meetings in your area, or even go door-to-door, to try and educate people further than what the Remain campaign were failing at doing?

Did you even get involved in the Remain campaign?

What did any of you actually do that makes you think you have a point with your continual (and very repetitive!) style of posting on this thread?

If you knew it was going to be such a shit show, surely you got off your arses and did something?!

Fair play if you all did get off your arses and do something, but if you did sod all apart vote Remain and then come on Bluemoon to moan at people for five years, then I fail to see what your point is with your posting tactics on this thread.
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Psychedelic Casual said:
If you knew it was going to be such a shit show, surely you got off your arses and did something?!
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If you mean joining some of the campaigns, attending marches, signing petitions, writing to MP’s on numerous occasions, does that give me your permission to post my views on this thread?
 
smudgedj said:
Ursula had to change the rules when Merkel ordered her to do so.

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Every single country was always at liberty to approve the vaccine themselves and order their own supplies. They all chose to use the centralised EMA approach and the EU procurement. The vaccine rollout is going well in some EU countries and poorly in others. That’s down to their individual health systems. Trying to use our one and only success when it comes to the Pandemic as a Brexit point scoring exercise is pretty pathetic.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
low level = business failing. Raab would be proud of that.

I don't think we are seeing the half of it yet. Fish is merely the first because nothing rots faster than a bad fish deal (wasn't Brexit supposed to hand a massive win to the fishing industry?). Small business exporters, haulage companies, motor parts business's all calling out significant new costs and friction. In fact anyone that is importing or exporting from the single market and from GB to/from NI.

Some of it could have been mitigated for sure, but it hasn't been. Some of it will remain as a inconvenient truth of leaving the single market. Whatever, it is downgrading what we had, not improving it.

What we are seeing in the press increasingly is the reframing of the argument to Brexit is still a good thing its just been implemented in the wrong way. Thats dishonest.

Forget what some posters said once upon a time. The fact is that Brexit is now impacting severely on several sectors of the economy. New emerging problems are highlighted every day. Can you bring yourself to show a little empathy for those that are impacted significantly and a little honesty to admit that there are real today problems?
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Here is a simple question/challenge for you..........

You are experienced in managing change programmes, so...........

Please tell me, if, in 2016 0r 2017, you had been given the workstream/project of the Fishing Industry within this programme and your objectives/intended outcomes were aligned to achieving a smooth transition at the point of cutover....

Are you really saying that you could not have quite readily achieved a set of outcomes that would reflect a smooth transition?

Serious question

If you do not believe that you could quite readily have delivered a smooth transition - given sufficient time, resources, budget and ability to bring forward required policies - please tell me the what on earth are the issues/root causes that would prevent that.

I ask in an attempt to support you and others in moving the debate on.

Of course the question is open to Bob, Vic, dids, Stoner bluethru, ifwe etc.

It would be good to also see their level of understanding of the industry and the management of change programmes

I would be intrigued to compare notes - because, based on what I have gleaned on here, I would be very confident indeed that you would have successfully delivered that workstream and I am absolutely fucking sure that I could have delivered against that remit
 
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Brexit: Just because we enjoy making life that bit more difficult for ourselves.

‘Culture minister Caroline Dineage confirms that as a result of Brexit, musicians and arts touring in the EU "will be required to check domestic immigration and minister rules for each member states in which they wish to tour." That may include a visa or work permit.‘
 
mcfc1632 said:
Serious question

If you do not believe that you could quite readily have delivered a smooth transition - given sufficient time, resources, budget and ability to bring forward required policies - please tell me the what on earth are the issues/root causes that would prevent that.

I ask in an attempt to support you and others in moving the debate on.

Of course the question is open to Bob, Vic, dids, Stoner bluethru, ifwe etc.

It would be good to also see their level of understanding of the industry and the management of change programmes

I would be intrigued to compare notes - because I am absolutely fucking sure that I could have delivered against that remit
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Brexit. Specifically the decision to remove ourselves from the Single Market and Customs Union and create our own separate legal and regulatory regime.

No amount of planning, mitigation or resources can eradicate the barriers that this decision puts in place.

The mistake people made on here when ‘celebrating‘ the deal which gave us tariff free access to the Single Market with no payments and ECJ jurisdiction was in thinking this meant we carried on as before. It didn’t, the EU gave us access, but only after putting a myriad of administrative and regulatory barriers in place that we are finding it difficult, and in some cases impossible, to navigate.

We have kneecapped ourselves and we will waste billions trying to bandage the wounds, yet you can solve most issues easily and with one fixed annual payment. Join the EEA and get Single Market membership. Barriers come down and trade will start to flow again. It will also help with our own internal border down the Irish Sea.

We spent four years trying to get the EU to cave or give us what we had before but at no cost and no ECJ jurisdiction, something that was promised in the referendum. In the end, Johnson gave up and got us a shittier deal with shittier arrangements then fucking Australia and NZ have with the EU.

That is the reality.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Here is a simple question/challenge for you..........

You are experienced in managing change programmes, so...........

Please tell me, if, in 2016 0r 2017, you had been given the workstream/project of the Fishing Industry within this programme and your objectives/intended outcomes were aligned to achieving a smooth transition at the point of cutover....

Are you really saying that you could not have quite readily achieved a set of outcomes that would reflect a smooth transition?

Serious question

If you do not believe that you could quite readily have delivered a smooth transition - given sufficient time, resources, budget and ability to bring forward required policies - please tell me the what on earth are the issues/root causes that would prevent that.

I ask in an attempt to support you and others in moving the debate on.

Of course the question is open to Bob, Vic, dids, Stoner bluethru, ifwe etc.

It would be good to also see their level of understanding of the industry and the management of change programmes

I would be intrigued to compare notes - because, based on what I have gleaned on here, I would be very confident indeed that you would have successfully delivered that workstream and I am absolutely fucking sure that I could have delivered against that remit
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One way of moving the debate on is to recognise the problems in detail. Then a proper discussion on how they could be resolved. That is more useful than a dry hypothetical discussion about what should have been done. Good programme management is fixing forward not looking back. Until you and others admit and recognise that there are issues this thread will remain in its present intellectual limbo.
 
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