Keir Starmer

Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Novara Media with a bit of egg on their faces too as they made a lot of that call at the time. Fair play to them for running with this though and not just keeping quiet.
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Yeah. The position that some of them took at the time was a bit tone deaf, attacking him for not condemning it as a conspiracy theory. Obviously that is factually accurate, but it would only have done the racist nutjobs a favour by proliferating their views further and attract sympathy from people of like minded attitudes, such as cultural nativists but who aren't fully paid up racists. It was the right choice for Keith to skirt around.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
Yeah. The position that some of them took at the time was a bit tone deaf, attacking him for not condemning it as a conspiracy theory. Obviously that is factually accurate, but it would only have done the racist nutjobs a favour by proliferating their views further and attract sympathy from people of like minded attitudes, such as cultural nativists but who aren't fully paid up racists. It was the right choice for Keith to skirt around.
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There you go with that ridiculous term again.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
Yeah. The position that some of them took at the time was a bit tone deaf, attacking him for not condemning it as a conspiracy theory. Obviously that is factually accurate, but it would only have done the racist nutjobs a favour by proliferating their views further and attract sympathy from people of like minded attitudes, such as cultural nativists but who aren't fully paid up racists. It was the right choice for Keith to skirt around.
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Cultural nativism is definitely on the rise, so Keith probably got this right.
 
Ban-jani said:
There you go with that ridiculous term again.
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Nativism is the political policy of promoting the interests of native inhabitants against those of immigrants,[1] including the support of immigration-restriction measures.[2]

In scholarly studies, nativism is a standard technical term, although those who hold this political view do not typically accept the label. Oezguer Dindar wrote, "[N]ativists [...] do not consider themselves [to be] nativists. For them it is a negative term and they rather consider themselves as 'Patriots
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Have a read of this.

Nativism (politics) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
Just catching up with Ridge from Yesterday

Blair is on and it suddenly struck me, how we could do with a leader of his gravitas at the moment. I may not agree with him politically but he talks with real authority and he would do a far better job than the Eton Muppet or Mr Woodenhead.

I think I had best have a lie down.
 
Rascal said:
Just catching up with Ridge from Yesterday

Blair is on and it suddenly struck me, how we could do with a leader of his gravitas at the moment. I may not agree with him politically but he talks with real authority and he would do a far better job than the Eton Muppet or Mr Woodenhead.

I think I had best have a lie down.
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It might have been the soft lighting in the room trying to project him as a godlike entity?

Back on topic. Joe has finally called Keith out for what he is.

 
Rascal said:
Just catching up with Ridge from Yesterday

Blair is on and it suddenly struck me, how we could do with a leader of his gravitas at the moment. I may not agree with him politically but he talks with real authority and he would do a far better job than the Eton Muppet or Mr Woodenhead.

I think I had best have a lie down.
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Best PM you have had in your life time - dare you to say it.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
Have a read of this.

Nativism (politics) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
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I have read it and it’s still a nonsense term.

The reason being is that it’s been coined as a type of negative distraction from traditional views and actually the majority of people on the planet have some of those views, to varying degrees.

It’s the type of word used by radicals on the left to try and paint the majority across the spectrum as something they are not (shock horror who liked your post).

There’s a big difference between wanting to restrict immigration numbers and wanting to treat immigrants that are here badly, this term throws them both in together, according to that you’ve shared, which is done on purpose.
 
Ban-jani said:
I have read it and it’s still a nonsense term.

The reason being is that it’s been coined as a type of negative distraction from traditional views and actually the majority of people on the planet have some of those views, to varying degrees.

It’s the type of word used by radicals on the left to try and paint the majority across the spectrum as something they are not (shock horror who liked your post).

There’s a big difference between wanting to restrict immigration numbers and wanting to treat immigrants that are here badly, this term throws them both in together, according to that you’ve shared, which is done on purpose.
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I'm not sure you have fully understood it then. You are using your broad brushes again. In the post in the other thread, I specifically stated that you weren't alt-right, I have not said that nativists necessarily become violent or take a political stance of defining immigrants as 2nd class citizens in law .However, some do. You set a target with a lower limit of 5000 per annum and you have consistently mentioned culture when you talk about immigration, this in my opinion is cultural nativism.

There are plenty of examples on that page, with numerous sources of literature and 58 footnotes. It is a valid term to use for a particular circumstance that naturally flows from the politics of anti-immigrant sentiment.

 
Fode N The Hole said:
I'm not sure you have fully understood it then. You are using your broad brushes again. In the post in the other thread, I specifically stated that you weren't alt-right, I have not said that nativists necessarily become violent or take a political stance of defining immigrants as 2nd class citizens in law .However, some do. You set a target with a lower limit of 5000 per annum and you have consistently mentioned culture when you talk about immigration.

There are plenty of examples on that page, with numerous sources of literature and 58 footnotes. It is a valid term to use for a particular circumstance that naturally flows from the politics of anti-immigrant sentiment.

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I merely said that from the Wikipedia post it specifically states that the negative treatment of immigrants is a part of Nativism.

Considering you’ve described me as this term and your last line, I don’t have anti-immigrant sentiments at all, I am merely concentrated on the number of people coming in. If we had a population shortage and needed more people than the 5k-25k I think is reasonable, I’d be happy for us to loosen restrictions. I am also a supporter of the immigration bill because anyone can come if they meet the job criteria and have learned English.

My politics are soft conservatism mostly, in the traditional sense, it’s only on this very left wing forum that I stick out a bit.

Wanting to tighten immigration numbers was Labour policy under Miliband. I know certain posters on here look at it as an extreme view, but it really is not, mass immigration is the radical position.

As I’ve said, the very link you’ve posted both describes “Nativism” as having a view that immigration should be restricted (yes my view and that of most people) and view that immigrants should be treated worse than natives (not my view at all and nor that of the vast majority who hold conservative views).

What you are doing, in a fairly articulate and carefully constructed way, is to paint a picture of people, whilst claiming I am stroking a broad brush, that those who support a lower number of net immigration, are somehow focused on it because of some sort of disturbing underlying ethnic reason, which couldn’t be further from the truth.

I don’t care where the 25k a year come from, as long as they want to buy into our society and the number remains realistic for our infrastructure.

I hope that is now clear.
 
Gaudion M said:
Best PM you have had in your life time - dare you to say it.
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TBH i havent had much of a choice.

Thatcher.
Major
Blair
Brown
Cameron
May
Eton mess

Before Thatcher I was too young to really remember Callaghan

So ranking them top to bottom

Brown

Blair

Major

Cameron

May

Eton mess

Thatcher.
 
Ban-jani said:
Considering you’ve described me as this term and your last line, I don’t have anti-immigrant sentiments at all, I am merely concentrated on the number of people coming in. If we had a population shortage and needed more people than the 5k-25k I think is reasonable, I’d be happy for us to loosen restrictions. I am also a supporter of the immigration bill because anyone can come if they meet the job criteria and have learned English.
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When you see 'we' who do you mean, because Scotland does indeed need immigration and lots of it.
Rascal said:
TBH i havent had much of a choice.

Thatcher.
Major
Blair
Brown
Cameron
May
Eton mess

Before Thatcher I was too young to really remember Callaghan

So ranking them top to bottom

Brown

Blair

Major

Cameron

May

Eton mess

Thatcher.
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Blair




Brown




Major























Cameron/May












Thatcher





I ran out of room for Johnson....
 
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