Political relations between UK-EU

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
  • Start date Start date
mcfc1632 said:
There are 2 'elephants in the room' that Remainers have no answer to and are desperate to avoid the thread considering:

1) If the EU had remained a common market I doubt we would even have had a referendum let alone left.

2) If the Remainer led government of May/Hammond had commenced planning for a Brexit outcome that saw the UK leave the SM and CU (as promised my the Remain campaign) then we would have had 4 years in which to identify post Brexit issues and plan for their management. Such planning would have resulted in mitigating actions being taken, required policies produced or contingency plans prepared. Even the current issues (which are nothing like the Remainer promised apocalypse) are, inconveniently, the fault of Remainers not committing to the UK genuinely leaving the EU

These are inconvenient truths perhaps - but no amount of Remainer denial or bluster can actual affect the fact that they are indeed the truth - facts and not opinion
Click to expand...
Good grief. Did you get a degree in boring repetition?
 
metalblue said:
So you’re argument for not joining is that you are worried we will end up with another EU type institution? An institution you actually voted to remain in?

Ok.
Click to expand...
I presume that's an innocent misreading rather than a deliberate twist.
 
Tiattos_Waterbottle said:
Still yet to hear a tangible benefit of Brexit. Biggest act of needless self harm a country has ever done.
Click to expand...
ee2ZvPD.gif
 
Kazzydeyna said:
... those nations do not see themselves as a racially superior whole and do not have delusions of grandeur.

It’s all good chap. Sit back and enjoy it.
Click to expand...
Good grief. Why would they want us then, rocking that boat?
 
Vic said:
I presume that's an innocent misreading rather than a deliberate twist.
Click to expand...

It certainly wasn’t a deliberate twist. I don’t do them without smiley faces

For me the post basically opined that the CPTPP could become like the EU and the question was posed how leavers would feel and that was presented as a rationale for not joining. I was merely pointing out what I saw as the obvious flaw in that. How did you read it (not a dig, genuinely curious in your take)?
 
metalblue said:
It certainly wasn’t a deliberate twist. I don’t do them without smiley faces

For me the post basically opined that the CPTPP could become like the EU and the question was posed how leavers would feel and that was presented as a rationale for not joining. I was merely pointing out what I saw as the obvious flaw in that. How did you read it (not a dig, genuinely curious in your take)?
Click to expand...
The clue about the bigger flaw with the CPTPP as far as we're concerned is the second P. Maybe it will be good news for the descendants of the Bounty mutineers as the only British territory in that region is the Pitcairn Islands.
 
metalblue said:
If it was based solely on a trade agreement I would agree with you however the EU is as much a political beast as a trading bloc.

We need to see where the contentious/ conflicting areas might be between the EU deal with the UK and the UK deal with the CPTPP before jumping to any conclusions about how pragmatic the EU will be on this. The EU also has bilateral agreements with many of the CPTPP signatories already so let’s see how “oven ready” this one might actually be.

And remember deals cut both ways - this could (via brexit) give the EU better access particularly with half an eye on China and/or the US joining down the line. I’m sure the numbers are being crunched as much in Brussels as they are in London.
Click to expand...
I agree with all this, but......

1. The current deal with the EU is very good - for mainly 2 reasons. That it marks the fact that the UK has escaped the ruinous fate of EU wide economic, financial and political integration - and it avoided the significant impact No-Deal would have immediately caused

2. It is otherwise not a good deal and reflects too much inappropriate EU involvement and control wit/over the UK

3. Over the coming 3 years we will be able to learn a lot and plan/prepare for alternatives should we choose a path that leads to the EU taking actions re tariffs etc. the sort of planning that we should have been doing between 2016-2020

4. We will be positioned better to make a decision on what is better for us if we wished to join the CPTTP and the EU 'kicked off'. The EU stranglehold over the UK will reduce steadily - so long as we manage it and do not allow it to be strengthened. We have nearly 4 more years of a government that have only motivation to ensure that happens
 
west didsblue said:
I am also bemused at the excitement amongst the Brexit boys about getting in bed with Pacific rim countries, many of which we already have FTAs. At best the gains will be marginal. It's weird.
Why haven't we applied to USMCA or MERCOSUR. They're a bit nearer.
Click to expand...

We’ll be applying to join the ‘United Federation of Planets’ by this time next week.

Will we have to relocate if we join CPTPP? Quite fancy NZ myself.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
If we join the bloc and as a whole the Bloc wants to work together to set up a uniform set of standards on things such as food standards for example, I would be perfectly happy.

If however the bloc starts to call itself “The united States of Asia-Pacifica“ and demands its own anthem, passport, foreign ministry, and Supreme Court , with all of the above having supremacy over Westminster I would not be happy. If the bloc sets up an immigration policy that runs in such a way as to relegate the rest of the world as racially inferior, I would. Not be happy.

But the latter isn’t going to happen is it? Why not? Because those nations do not see themselves as a racially superior whole and do not have delusions of grandeur.

It’s all good chap. Sit back and enjoy it.
Click to expand...
bollocks.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
If we join the bloc and as a whole the Bloc wants to work together to set up a uniform set of standards on things such as food standards for example, I would be perfectly happy.

If however the bloc starts to call itself “The united States of Asia-Pacifica“ and demands its own anthem, passport, foreign ministry, and Supreme Court , with all of the above having supremacy over Westminster I would not be happy. If the bloc sets up an immigration policy that runs in such a way as to relegate the rest of the world as racially inferior, I would. Not be happy.

But the latter isn’t going to happen is it? Why not? Because those nations do not see themselves as a racially superior whole and do not have delusions of grandeur.

It’s all good chap. Sit back and enjoy it.
Click to expand...

1612264023811.png
 
mcfc1632 said:
I agree with all this, but......

1. The current deal with the EU is very good - for mainly 2 reasons. That it marks the fact that the UK has escaped the ruinous fate of EU wide economic, financial and political integration - and it avoided the significant impact No-Deal would have immediately caused

2. It is otherwise not a good deal and reflects too much inappropriate EU involvement and control wit/over the UK

3. Over the coming 3 years we will be able to learn a lot and plan/prepare for alternatives should we choose a path that leads to the EU taking actions re tariffs etc. the sort of planning that we should have been doing between 2016-2020

4. We will be positioned better to make a decision on what is better for us if we wished to join the CPTTP and the EU 'kicked off'. The EU stranglehold over the UK will reduce steadily - so long as we manage it and do not allow it to be strengthened. We have nearly 4 more years of a government that have only motivation to ensure that happens
Click to expand...

Points 1 and 2 is like matter and anti-matter trying to coexist at the same point in time and space.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
....
But the latter isn’t going to happen is it? Why not? Because those nations do not see themselves as a racially superior whole and do not have delusions of grandeur.

It’s all good chap. Sit back and enjoy it.
Click to expand...

Insane. Dribbling lunacy.
 
metalblue said:
So you’re argument for not joining is that you are worried we will end up with another EU type institution? An institution you actually voted to remain in?

Ok.
Click to expand...

No - you totally got the wrong end of the stick - its a question for you - we went into the EEC so people bang on about because it was a reading bloc but it morphed into something that Leavers didn't like. The question is what happens if in a decade the member states want this to be more than a trading bloc..........then where do you stand?
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Bazinga.

I wonder if they rever read back what they're about to post and go "nah, that makes me look incredibly hypocritical."

EU became a Political Bloc against our will, Seepy Teepeepee IS a trade bloc like the EEC that has all the attractions of the EEC. The fact it also contains several nations with the same political systems, laws, cultural aspects on standards for human rights and share the same language and £9trn worth of trade, means this should be something they'd be screaming from the heavens for.

I mean the EU were; they have been making trade arrangements with nations on the other side of the planet for the past decade. Never heard any criticisms from them about it before when we were a member.

Is it because Seepy Teepeepee isn't 'European' enough for them?
Click to expand...
If only there was a major trading bloc nearer as well - one in Europe would be ideal

Alas - there is no longer such an entity
 
Vic said:
Good grief. Did you get a degree in boring repetition?
Click to expand...
I can well understand that you find these facts uncomfortable to have posted.

As I said in that post:

"There are 2 'elephants in the room' that Remainers have no answer to and are desperate to avoid the thread considering:
 
bluethrunthru said:
No - you totally got the wrong end of the stick - its a question for you - we went into the EEC so people bang on about because it was a reading bloc but it morphed into something that Leavers didn't like. The question is what happens if in a decade the member states want this to be more than a trading bloc..........then where do you stand?
Click to expand...

Apologies for misunderstanding. So it’s very simple for me. Ok if it is a trading bloc, not ok if it has ambitions of federalist state.

I don’t know if the original articles of incorporation for the EEC alluded to any futuristic ambition that the EU became or it was merely “mission creep” that we repeatedly voted to allow.

Now is anyone going to ask for a referendum on joining the CPTPP ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top