Political relations between UK-EU

[Metal Biker]

Nurse!

 

[bluethrunthru]

another day another export sector in the shit......."excessive bureaucracy and new rules" is just ignorant reporting. All that is being applied are the rules as applicable to 3rd countries - they were warned and instead of doing their homework they believed Eustace - hard to have any sympathy to be honest

Brexit: UK pig exports 'facing a crisis'

About 100,000 pigs are stuck on UK farms as a result of the pandemic and new rules, officials say.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[west didsblue]

Because then, then they will have seriously underestimated British resolve and that hasn’t ended well for Europeans in the past.

Short of threatening military action what are you suggesting?
Blustering and making silly threats didn't work out particularly well last year and there's absolutely no indication that ramping up the rhetoric will work this year either. A simple recognition that their combined economy and population are around 6 times ours and their dependence on UK trade is a fraction of our dependence on trade with them would be a good start for us which will enable us to approach negotiations with realistic aims. Cherry picking a few areas where they are dependent on us and using that to go into negotiations acting like Billy Big Bollocks is a sure way of getting laughed at and ending up with a load of shite like we did with the Trade Deal. They already know where they have depended on us in the past and have contingency plans in place to circumvent most of it. They don't particularly want to because of the cost but they've demonstrated that they will do when necessary rather than roll over like some of us think they will. In reality, when push came to shove, we rolled over on fish and they have built up their own ability to trade Euro denominated shares to name just two areas where we thought we had the upper hand.

 

[west didsblue]

another day another export sector in the shit......."excessive bureaucracy and new rules" is just ignorant reporting. All that is being applied are the rules as applicable to 3rd countries - they were warned and instead of doing their homework they believed Eustace - hard to have any sympathy to be honest

Brexit: UK pig exports 'facing a crisis'

About 100,000 pigs are stuck on UK farms as a result of the pandemic and new rules, officials say.

www.bbc.co.uk

There'll be no shortage of gammon in our supermarkets as a consequence.

 

[journolud]

Nurse!

Yes, what do you want?

 

[metalblue]

There are as yet undiscovered lifeforms living off the sides of hydrothermic vents in the Atlantic Ocean who knew years ago that the brains of Brexit would resort to blaming the EU for the consequences of the UK leaving the EU.

Man alive. You clowns don't even believe this any more. It's just all you have left. I bet when you are trying to sleep late at night a part of your soul whispers "Maybe I was wrong" repeatedly.

The hardest thing in the world is to admit you were duped.

What an outstanding contribution to the debate. I particularly liked the part where you insult the intelligence of people you’ve never met.

I sleep very well safe in the knowledge I will never be wrong in voting leave. I voted leave because of TTIPs and protecting our public services like the NHS from foreign corporations interference and prosecutions is something I would do again, and again, and again. I could equally ask anyone who voted remain how do they sleep at night knowingly voting for that?, matters not it is in the long grass now the fact it even had the traction it did at that time should have rang alarm bells in everyone of us. Now many people probably weren’t even aware of it but that does beg the question did the “remainers” know what they were voting for ;)

 

[bluethrunthru]

There'll be no shortage of gammon in our supermarkets as a consequence.

you're just bacon that up

 

[journolud]

What an outstanding contribution to the debate. I particularly liked the part where you insult the intelligence of people you’ve never met.

I sleep very well safe in the knowledge I will never be wrong in voting leave. I voted leave because of TTIPs and protecting our public services like the NHS from foreign corporations interference and prosecutions is something I would do again, and again, and again. I could equally ask anyone who voted remain how do they sleep at night knowingly voting for that?, matters not it is in the long grass now the fact it even had the traction it did at that time should have rang alarm bells in everyone of us. Now many people probably weren’t even aware of it but that does beg the question did the “remainers” know what they were voting for ;)

Voting leave to protect the NHS is a new one on me and I would genuinely like to understand that more. There has previously been a lot of talk, perhaps unsubstantiated but who knows, about the threat to the NHS from a potential trade deal with Trump's America. There were of course constant denials.

The only mention of the NHS that I remember from the leave campaign was the famous side of the bus quote, this was less about protecting the NHS but funding it.

Meanwhile, among other things, a number of our railway franchises are in the hands of foreign companies and possibly states. I understand this to be as a result of government polices that have allowed them to be sold off, not due to some instruction or direction from the EU.

So, can you educate me as to where the threat to the NHS from the EU would have arisen?

 

[BobKowalski]

More straw clutching will do's and could be's.
We've been listening to the same tedious crap for donkey's years, yet
subsequent announcements, the facts, and actual events always, always
returns what any objective person knew all along.
Yet another disaster forecast on here once again proves utter nonsense, you
must spend your life hunting for anything that promises to do this country down. It's sad really, but no sympathy is due to folk who actively hope for
that.

I am posting about what is happening right now. Not predictions. Reality. No amount of sky screaming is changing that.

 

[metalblue]

If it was only 15% it would not have been worth making fishing the "acid test" of Brexit.

The speed of deal? You mean the deliberate delay of deal in the hope of late concessions from the EU.

It sounds like the EU is split between those who say the UK should be aware of its new status as a third county (hyped here as "independent coastal state") and those who want to keep things normal - which would have included restaurant customers wanting our shellfish but the trade is dead because of a pandemic.

Who could guess that leaving the EU in the middle of a pandemic could be bad?

Trouble is we can all make statistics support our argument. It’s headlines not the detail that people remember and repeat. The CFP is a very emotive subject on many levels (damn foreigners fishing our waters and all that) so it was a good one to go after.

The rest of your post is probably pretty much the case. Although I still say if we were told it would be ok then 3rd party or not we are entitled to rely on that. Mind you the longer we don’t evidence that fact the slightly less convinced I am!

Leaving during a pandemic or not I doubt would make much difference- I could even suggest with trade on its arse now is probably the best time to iron out all the issues but it’s certainly the worst time for revenues to be hit

 

[Vic]

I’m sure you’d be narked if your boss didn’t pay you your last months money after you quit citing “well you were the one who started playing ‘silly sods’ for wanting out and resigning”. I suppose you could key his car in retaliation.

But you would right expect people to behave in a professional and fair way, not like a bunch of spoilt brats who haven’t got their way. This is what I hope the EU are doing here and it’s just an overzealous bureaucratic process at play and not some underhand tactic because they feel we had them over on vaccines or the such or they just want to punish us for leaving. Because then, then they will have seriously underestimated British resolve and that hasn’t ended well for Europeans in the past.

Please don't join the jingoists who spout militarist nonsense. Not when we were talking seriously.

If you just meant our resolve to commit self-harm we've certainly shown how good we are at that. "The English vice" is now policy.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

How?
Nuke their ports?

No need, a few net inspections, because our rules are not theirs, and
because we can, cut nets, because we can, completely change quotas to
virtually zero, because we can, ignore the mutual agreements around fishing,
they can, and do, and we could.
Because we can.
Or we could disrupt trade in other areas, make their exports to here a tortuous process by introducing similar pettifogging rules.
We can do all this without nukes, because we can.
All childish and mutually self destructive, but they started it.

 

[Vic]

What an outstanding contribution to the debate. I particularly liked the part where you insult the intelligence of people you’ve never met.

I sleep very well safe in the knowledge I will never be wrong in voting leave. I voted leave because of TTIPs and protecting our public services like the NHS from foreign corporations interference and prosecutions is something I would do again, and again, and again. I could equally ask anyone who voted remain how do they sleep at night knowingly voting for that?, matters not it is in the long grass now the fact it even had the traction it did at that time should have rang alarm bells in everyone of us. Now many people probably weren’t even aware of it but that does beg the question did the “remainers” know what they were voting for ;)

We could veto TTIP.

Parliament won't even be able to veto any similar provision in CPTPP.

 

[BobKowalski]

I’ve seen various numbers for EU catches in UK waters but it’s about 15% from official government data, although they do say some of the EU numbers are based on best “guesses”. But that is for UK registered vessels and we know of quota hoping (which I think I saw was estimated around 18%) so that does get us up nearer you numbers. We are a net importer of fish (not sure what species breakdown) and pre Brexit were landing about 45% of UK registered boat catches from UK waters into EU ports so that could help but I don’t think we landed that much “UK” cod in EU ports.

100% agreed we should have nailed this down as fishing was one of our main trump cards - I’ll still likely think the blame lay with speed of deal rather than overtly bad negotiations (as in case of shellfish-gate where we seemingly didn’t get all our ducks in a row before signing)

The timeframe and speed of the deal was determined by the UK, consequently any negative impact due to the rush to do the deal is down to the UK. Apparently, it was important to get out from the influence of the EU so we rushed to sign a deal that gave the EU leverage over the UK.

Just like in our determination to get the WA done, we agreed to a customs border in the Irish Sea, which Brexiteers are now ’shocked’ by.

Reality, it seems, is not a strong point with Brexiteers.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Another incisive critique.

25% decline in tons landed from before WW1 to UK joining EC.

55% decline in fishers from 1948 to 1970.

It's no good blaming EU quotas when left to our own devices we would have continued overfishing. Other EU fleets have shrunk (Spain by half).

I don't think you've seen the changes in quotas agreed in the deal.
Plus, you cannot have been around immediately after we joined, and
the destruction wreaked on the likes of Grimsby.
'Left to our own devices we would have continued overfishing.'
This is utterly laughable, since joining EU countries, particularly Spain,
have been hoovering the seas around our shores and you come out with that?
All this concern you're showing for an industry where a few weeks ago
you were describing as inconsequential, now seems to be your main focus.
You are completely in thrall, but we've known that for ages, anything they
do that is detrimental to us is cheered and crowed over, their actions
defended over these stunts as though they hold the moral high ground.
Thank Christ you keep losing.

 

[Vic]

No need, a few net inspections, because our rules are not theirs, and
because we can, cut nets, because we can, completely change quotas to
virtually zero, because we can, ignore the mutual agreements around fishing,
they can, and do, and we could.
Because we can.
Or we could disrupt trade in other areas, make their exports to here a tortuous process by introducing similar pettifogging rules.
We can do all this without nukes, because we can.
All childish and mutually self destructive, but they started it.

We are going to introduce pettifogging rules on imports. Just not yet.

Has the EU broken the deal? We may have misunderstood molluscs (or not got it in writing), but you are openly advocating that the UK tear up a month old deal, and think this will be good for us.

You really do like pain.

 

[BobKowalski]

No need, a few net inspections, because our rules are not theirs, and
because we can, cut nets, because we can, completely change quotas to
virtually zero, because we can, ignore the mutual agreements around fishing,
they can, and do, and we could.
Because we can.
Or we could disrupt trade in other areas, make their exports to here a tortuous process by introducing similar pettifogging rules.
We can do all this without nukes, because we can.
All childish and mutually self destructive, but they started it.

We can’t. We signed a treaty. The EU is applying the treaty.

We can open negotiations on Shellfish and hope for a resolution, but failing to put it in the treaty means we are relying on EU ‘goodwill’ to find a solution.

Finally, we will be introducing customs checks on EU imports, but not until 1st June although this assumes we will have staffed and built the necessary infrastructure. I have no doubt these checks and rules will impede EU imports meaning we as consumers will pay the price.

That great ‘free trade deal’ we signed. Not looking quite so great or ‘free’ now is it?

 

[west didsblue]

No need, a few net inspections, because our rules are not theirs, and
because we can, cut nets, because we can, completely change quotas to
virtually zero, because we can, ignore the mutual agreements around fishing,
they can, and do, and we could.
Because we can.
Or we could disrupt trade in other areas, make their exports to here a tortuous process by introducing similar pettifogging rules.
We can do all this without nukes, because we can.
All childish and mutually self destructive, but they started it.

We can do all that overnight and it would destroy every EU fishing fleet?
I'm impressed.

 

[journolud]

No need, a few net inspections, because our rules are not theirs, and
because we can, cut nets, because we can, completely change quotas to
virtually zero, because we can, ignore the mutual agreements around fishing,
they can, and do, and we could.
Because we can.
Or we could disrupt trade in other areas, make their exports to here a tortuous process by introducing similar pettifogging rules.
We can do all this without nukes, because we can.
All childish and mutually self destructive, but they started it.

How did your career as a diplomat end?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

to do that would be to incur the ire of fishing communities so the illusion had to be maintained they were being protected.
The idea that the fishing fleet will be expanded to accommodate change when the change has actually resulted in the fleet being tied up. Who buys a working boat to not put to work?

Millions are to be invested in fishing. It's simply your idea, not what is happening. Quotas have been increased immediately, But I suppose with the
kind of logic we see on here that really means catching less.