#9 | Gabriel Jesus - 2020/21 Performances

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PannickAtTheDisco said:
I don't one could ever condemn Jesus for lack of trying...

In reality Messi's conversion rates are so poor is because he's only had 54/113 (47.8%) in the penalty area. Meanwhile, Jesus is down in his neck of the woods but has had 26/29 (89.7%) of his shots within the penalty area.

So basically, Messi has given up on his team-mates and is twatting shots from everywhere, which makes them easier to save due to the long-range.
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Yeah, I think my post sums it up. Not even xG is a definitive measure of how good a striker is, a couple of extra goals and Jesus would have stats at least as good as Rashford's, while beating him in many other areas in the attacking statistics. Nobody compares Firmino the same way they get at Gabby. Jesus can and should score more(20+ goals in the league and we are laughing), we can still get an out and out goalscorer but sometimes the team is better without one, depending on the opposition. Unless of course, we buy a player that can do everything but I can't see Haaland doing everything that Jesus does, there's room for both.
 
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Metalartin said:
Yeah, I think my post sums it up. Not even xG is a definitive measure of how good a striker is, a couple of extra goals and Jesus would have stats at least as good as Rashford's, while beating him in many other areas in the attacking statistics. Nobody compares Firmino the same way they get at Gabby. Jesus can and should score more(20+ goals in the league and we are laughing), we can still get an out and out goalscorer but sometimes the team is better without one, depending on the opposition. Unless of course, we buy a player that can do everything but I can't see Haaland doing everything that Jesus does, there's room for both.
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I agree his close control was excellent last night and the team looks better with his energy and link up play but I think you are being generous with your Rashford comparison. If you look over their full league careers, Rashford is averaging pretty much his xg, ever so slightly lower, whereas Jesus is scoring 75% of his xg.
 
Bluster said:
I agree his close control was excellent last night and the team looks better with his energy and link up play but I think you are being generous with your Rashford comparison. If you look over their full league careers, Rashford is averaging pretty much his xg, ever so slightly lower, whereas Jesus is scoring 75% of his xg.
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The Rashford comment was bout this seasons stats so far. Even in previous seasons though Rashford was in the red for 3 of the previous 4 seasons. That's better than Jesus but it's nothing to boast about(again in those seasons most of the top scorers were in the green), go look at my previous post where I provided the stats. Jesus was not far off his xG in 2 of his first 2 seasons himself, 0.24 off in his first season and 2.37 goals in his second. It's all a bit weird to argue over a decimal of goal, I will never place too much stock in xG. It's theoretical nonsense to me.

When you add in the extra minutes Rashford has had in the league, the fact that Rashford has had a much smoother ride. No new country to adapt to, the injuries Jesus had when he arrived, no Aguero for Rashford to compete with for those vital minutes. It's not an apples to apples comparison, Rashford's an academy product that has been shown lots of patience, Jesus had much more pressure and more disruptions to his rhythm.

So although Rashford xG is better, it's not great all things considered is the point. His total xG conversion is still in the red, where players like Kane, Salah, Son are all reaching 18 to 25 goals more PL career goals than their xG(well into the green).

I do think think Rashford is a better finisher than Jesus but he's not really as far off as the stats suggest. It's more like ones overrated, the other underrated. Both young players, who started playing in the PL around the same time, treated completely differently, with some valid reasons why one player has developed more slowly than the other. Did you see the other stats? Gabby looks comfortably the more well rounded attacking player/forward. If this was PES/FIFA career mode(as most of the stats people think real life football is), I know which player I'd be signing.
 
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He is an excellent “Pep” striker in this current iteration. His lateral movement, coupled with his ability to come short, provides the kind of striker mobility seen in players like Firmino, who also doesn’t get the due he deserves for his part in Liverpool’s attacking set-up.

Jesus often plays out left for Brazil, and we have seen him there for City, too. This provides us with the ability to pair him with another striker, be that Aguero or A.N. Other, and to provide him with the rest and rotation needed for high energy forwards in the modern game.

Given his age, ability, and potential (which is still far from realized), Jesus could become another City superstar. His performances, IMHO, already elevate him far above the “good PL striker” category, and it is only his lack of goal output that has stopped him from being considered elite. He has all the tools needed to achieve that at City.
 
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Metalartin said:
The Rashford comment was bout this seasons stats so far. Even in previous seasons though Rashford was in the red for 3 of the previous 4 seasons. That's better than Jesus but it's nothing to boast about(again in those seasons most of the top scorers were in the green), go look at my previous post where I provided the stats. Jesus was not far off his xG in 2 of his first 2 seasons himself, 0.24 off in his first season and 2.37 goals in his second. It's all a bit weird to argue over a decimal of goal, I will never place too much stock in xG. It's theoretical nonsense to me.

When you add in the extra minutes Rashford has had in the league, the fact that Rashford has had a much smoother ride. No new country to adapt to, the injuries Jesus had when he arrived, no Aguero for Rashford to compete with for those vital minutes. It's not an apples to apples comparison, Rashford's an academy product that has been shown lots of patience, Jesus had much more pressure and more disruptions to his rhythm.

So although Rashford xG is better, it's not great all things considered is the point. His total xG conversion is still in the red, where players like Kane, Salah, Son are all reaching 18 to 25 goals more PL career goals than their xG(well into the green).

I do think think Rashford is a better finisher than Jesus but he's not really as far off as the stats suggest. It's more like ones overrated, the other underrated. Both young players, who started playing in the PL around the same time, treated completely differently, with some valid reasons why one player has developed more slowly than the other. Did you see the other stats? Gabby looks comfortably the more well rounded attacking player/forward. If this was PES/FIFA career mode(as most of the stats people think real life football is), I know which player I'd be signing.
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I agree that he has an awful lot of other excellent qualities and he's still relatively young but I disagree with your view on xg. It obviously isn't perfect but Rashford scores at 97.5% of his xg over his career and Jesus at 73.6% (last season was 67%). Over a few week there can be all sorts of anomalies but over a few seasons I suspect that reflects their finishing skills, it certainly feels about right for Jesus although I only watch Rashford when we play them. As you say, Kane and Salah are better still.

I also agree about who I'd sign, for City anyway. Jesus far more suits our style whereas Rashford's pace and strength seems suited to counter-attacking football more than our team of midfielders.

I know I'm being ridiculous when I say this but I worry that we have too many players who are not particularly clinical at finishing (Gundogan's streak excepted) and it may cost us in a tight game, not that I can remember them. I definitely wouldn't put money on us winning a penalty shoot out in the CL and am astounded that we've won the last few in the league cup.
 
Really terrific last night.In fairness to him, if he was sticking away the chances we think he should, he’d have more kids than Pele by now!
 
Bluster said:
I agree that he has an awful lot of other excellent qualities and he's still relatively young but I disagree with your view on xg. It obviously isn't perfect but Rashford scores at 97.5% of his xg over his career and Jesus at 73.6% (last season was 67%). Over a few week there can be all sorts of anomalies but over a few seasons I suspect that reflects their finishing skills, it certainly feels about right for Jesus although I only watch Rashford when we play them. As you say, Kane and Salah are better still.
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You're not getting my point, 97.5% of his xg isn't impressive compared to best in the league, those holding him up as some shining example are just supporting the case that xG doesn't tell the whole story. Rashford isn't anywhere near Kane, Son or Salah on conversion rates, he's miles off. In other words his xG conversion, is factually closer to Jesus' than it is any of those players.

Also the career long stat is a bit unfair with everything Jesus has had to contend with that Rashford hasn't. He's behind right now but I really do think Jesus can easily get to Rashford levels of finishing.

Rashford has only reached double figures twice in the league, same as Jesus. His highest tally is 17 goals, second highest 10, Jesus' highest tally is 14, second highest 13. Rashford has had 4,818 more minutes over 48 extra appearances, with no Aguero to compete with, fewer injury setbacks, no homesickness/missing his family to deal with. All in all he's had way fewer distractions and a head start, so Rashford should be performing better.

This is the first season where he hasn't had to worry about competing for minutes with Aguero but he's had injuries himself unfortunately. He has had more of a consistent run of games to find some rhythm all the same though and his xG is not far off Rashford's as things stand. So maybe this could be a better season to compare them if he does end up with anywhere near the same amount of minutes and appearances for the rest of the season(Rashford already played around 800 more minutes so far). Although Aguero has returned to full training now and started appearing on the bench. So maybe Jesus goes back to starting every other game and coming off the bench again, which I think could be a factor(rhythm). I say we just keep playing him into some goalscoring form and use Aguero sparingly for the mean time. The more consistent his game time gets, Jesus' performances have been improving in every area but the finishing thus far.
 
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Ban-jani said:
Aguero, in his prime, scores both of those chances 9/10, that Jesus had last night.

Add Haaland instead of him and we’re a better side, for sure.

I think he’s a decent number 2 but when he’s playing, out of all of our positions, centre forward is one of the weakest.
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Think you have purple tinted specs on there. Sergio might have scored one of the chances but I would put it 50/50 that he comes out of that game with 0 or 1 goal.

They were much harder chances than a lot are making out on here, the xG is probably 0.1 for both.

The frustration I have is missing the target completely, it's the same with Sterling, it looks so much worse when the keeper doesn't even have to save anything.

If it's on target there is always the chance of a keeper cocking it up like on Bernardo's goal.
 
EdersonsSmiley said:
Think you have purple tinted specs on there. Sergio might have scored one of the chances but I would put it 50/50 that he comes out of that game with 0 or 1 goal.

They were much harder chances than a lot are making out on here, the xG is probably 0.1 for both.

The frustration I have is missing the target completely, it's the same with Sterling, it looks so much worse when the keeper doesn't even have to save anything.

If it's on target there is always the chance of a keeper cocking it up like on Bernardo's goal.
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On the chance where Gabby was played in and took the shot on with his left foot, I kinda understand the shot selection of trying to beat the keeper high at his near post. If you get that on target it can’t be stopped, and he’s finished chances like that before

However, still lacking in a bit of confidence and on his weaker foot, the safer option of going across the goalkeeper into the bottom far corner would probably have been the better call
 
All round, I think he's playing the best football of his career. His link up play, his dribbling, his ability to hold the ball up is all fantastic. He is the obvious leader of our defensive press, he's organising everyone and picking his targets really well. The play to put the ball on a plate for Cancelo was absolutely brilliant.

He's smart as well, he won us 3 or 4 fouls in this game to take Arsenal's momentum away or kill the game. He ruins the opposition's attempt to press because he will go and bail out any midfielder under pressure.

Some people will say he's fantastic but just not an out and out striker - I disagree - I think he's building up to absolutely explode. He's got a mental block on his finishing right now, but it's not a skill he lacks because he was scoring those chances in 2017 when he arrived.

Sooner or later that cork is going to pop and he's going to have everything.
 
People will use that one effort he had against him, and fair he didn't do great, but let's not make it seem like he had alot of chances to begin with.

It's the weakest part to his game right now, and if we relied on our striker to mainly score our goals then it would be a problem, but we don't, our striker has to do so many other things too.

If Cancelo finishes that chance he gets an assist from his dribbling, his pressing is also very strong, list goes on. So glad to have him.
 
kaz7 said:
Raz doesnt get away with that sort of thing

How many years is he going to get to be more than holding it up ?
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He should be doing better but at least he contributes every game and has good technical ability. I believe the goals will come bear in mind he has scored goals in this run as well.

Brilliant being able to bring him on in these games as he really helps. Do we need someone clinical like Haaland? Yes. Is there room in this squad for Jesus? Definitely.
 
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