Wishy washy policing

[Nightmare Walking]

Sorry mate, cannot agree with you. I am old enough to understand respect to others and authaurities, this Country is getting worse and your stance of "they're only kids having fun" is a major part of the problem imo.

As I said to Chippy, arrest the ones who are being knobs, the ones climbing up trees pissed up, or fine the ones littering.
How do you even know most are not adhering to the rule of 6? How do you even prove it? I went down Ancoats and through Brookdale Park in Newton Heath yesterday and there were lots of people about. They were all in groups and causing no trouble at all. I find it too much of a coincidence that the trouble always seems to be where the cameras are. There were thousands of people in Heaton Park last summer and no problems at all, no spikes in virus cases. As far as I know, there is no scientific evidence what so ever to suggest what we have seen over the last few days, leads to an increase in cases.

I appreciate all your frustrations and understand why people are getting wound up. But everyone needs to calm down down and think sensibly. Over reacting makes the situation worse. Blanket on the spot fines and criminal prosecutions is a stupid idea. You could have had a few coppers walking round the parks, like they were in Heaton Park last year, reminding people about the rule of 6 and making sure people don't litter. That's sensible, pro-active policing. Anyone who then got out of hand, then deal with them.

The situation in Nottingham is different in regard to alcohol, as you are not allowed to drink alcohol in public places. The Police got that right and were confiscating it at the entrance.

 

[mosssideblue]

You know in Singapore, it's a $1,000 fine for littering. And they have plain clothes police officers patrolling and catching people. And you know what? The place is immaculate.

Do the people living in Singapore think it's a terrible place to live because their freedoms are impinged upon so much? Of course not. It's a great place to live.

Bringing such changes to the UK is not hard. It just requires political will to do so.

We've become too afraid of offending people

 

[inbetween]

You keep ranting if it makes you feel better, get it all out.

Have you never done anything wrong in your life? Are you totally perfect? Your first rant was suggesting criminal prosecution for what amounts to kids, sitting in the park, having a few beers, after being locked away for 12 months. There is zero scientific evidence to suggest what most of these kids have done, will exacerbate the spread of the virus to any serious degree. So you want to ruin these kids for the rest of their lives, stop them getting good jobs, just because they sat on the grass and had a beer.
Yes there has been a few pissed up dickheads and they deserve apprehending. But you have absolutely no idea whether all these people are adhering to the rule of 6. There may be not much social distancing going on, but A) there is none in Asda, B) I would not believe any picture in the paper.

Now I realise everyone is at the end of their tether and getting a bit agitated. I say this as someone who has spent 6 of the last 12 months, sat on my own at home, as I am clinically vulnerable. Try doing that and being really ill as well, which I have been. Believe me, it's not great for your faculties.

What I do not want to see is us making criminals out of young kids and ruining their entire lives. Most of them are not even behaving badly, it's a few pissed up goons.

You need to get down off your high horse and have a think. Situations like these are not black and white.

The rubbish issue, I do actually agree with you, fine them if they are caught. Your other Draconian ideas are not only stupid, but totally unrealistic. The police marching in with heavy handed tactics would just escalate the problem. What you need is calm and sensible policing, not coppers dispersing the crowds with batons and C's gas.

Those kids drinking in a park might seem harmless but if they go and see grandad this weekend then it isn't harmless is it? That is the problem and that's why laws exist to at least deter mixing for the time being. If it doesn't happen then grandad potentially gets COVID and dies, all thanks to what seems harmless.

If you look at the more collective and selfless cultures they all have had far less deaths. Many haven't even needed a vaccine because compliance with rules has eradicated COVID. In Japan people wear masks so other people don't get sick however here people are too stupid to care about that which is why there are still dic*heads who refuse to wear them.

Vaccines will begin to help this and allow us to get back to normal but it isn't going to go away so easily. As cases increase so will evolutionary pressure on the virus and that will generate evasive variants. It's still in our interest to keep cases low and that means being cautious when it comes to how we mix with others.

The fact is had the rules existed early enough and we all subsequently followed them to the letter then we would of been out of this months ago. We shouldn't need Police enforcement to achieve this but considering how dismissive and selfish people are then it seems we do.

 

[Chippy_boy]

They were all in groups and causing no trouble at all. I find it too much of a coincidence that the trouble always seems to be where the cameras are. There were thousands of people in Heaton Park last summer and no problems at all, no spikes in virus cases. As far as I know, there is no scientific evidence what so ever to suggest what we have seen over the last few days, leads to an increase in cases.

You are demonstrating the very problem we have.

There is a law about meeting in public places. It is not open to you or other individuals to question whether there's any scientific evidence etc and thereby justify breaking the law. It is the law.

And you talk about "reminding people about the rules"? They don't need reminding. They know the rules, they are simply choosing to ignore them. That's why they need fining, not reminding.

 

[Nightmare Walking]

You are demonstrating the very problem we have.

There is a law about meeting in public places. It is not open to you or other individuals to question whether there's any scientific evidence etc and thereby justify breaking the law. It is the law.

And you talk about "reminding people about the rules"? They don't need reminding. They know the rules, they are simply choosing to ignore them. That's why they need fining, not reminding.

You prove where any of these people are not adhering to the rule of 6.

 

[Chippy_boy]

There was an illegal rave in Yate - near where I live - In November whilst we were in lockdown. Some 700 people turned up, and I expect approximately 700 of them knew that it was illegal to do so, but they all thought "fuck it, what are they going to do about it". Some had travelled for absolutely miles.

And yet hardly anyone attending received any sort of punishment, even reprimand whatsoever. This is appalling.

 

[Chippy_boy]

You prove where any of these people are not adhering to the rule of 6.

Do you HONESTLY suggest that in the main they were? All the media said that there was hardly any evidence of social distancing so it would be completely illogical to assume that they were all sticklers for the rule of 6 rule whilst happy to completely ignore the social distancing rule. OF COURSE they were breaking the rule of 6 rule and I suspect you realise that must be the case.

From the Residents' Association:

"There was groups of 25 people sitting together last night with no social distancing. I feel sorry for the police but they were not dispersing them. There was a sea of people - you could smell the cannabis in the street and the noise was horrendous. It is not a park anymore it is a playground for students."

But anyway, that's not the point I was making. You were suggesting "well they weren't doing any harm, were they". (Or else what were your comments about not seeing evidence for spikes in infection about?)

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

They should all be rounded up......
No wait that’s not right.

 

[Chippy_boy]

As I said to Chippy, arrest the ones who are being knobs, the ones climbing up trees pissed up, or fine the ones littering.

Sorry I missed that line.



How many people were fined for littering, do you reckon?

BTW, here's Leeds yesterday. All in groups of no more than 6, of course:

 

[dave_blue12]

WTF has China and police states got to do with the price of bread. The law is not a set of optional guidelines. Is it unreasonable to ask the police to uphold it? No, it is not.

It's crap thinking like yours which has got us into this lawless mess.

Nope it's the shitstain of a political party that you keep voting for.

Even if the police had the manpower to clamp down which they don't, because, guess what, they're numbers have been cut over the past 10 years the courts don't have the capacity to deal with offenders, because guess what, the same clowns have been running down the criminal justice system. Cases are taking years to reach court and many are being dropped as not being in the public interest because it has taken so long to bring the case to court.

Party of law and order. What a fucking joke.

And I guess your version of lawless doesn't include your favourite politicians using tax payers money as if it were their own personal piggy bank.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Sorry I missed that line.

View attachment 13497

How many people were fined for littering, do you reckon?

BTW, here's Leeds yesterday. All in groups of no more than 6, of course:

View attachment 13498

What to do though? Send the police in in small numbers and they will be ignored. In large numbers then most folk would disperse, but a minority would sit there with their 25 mates claiming to be in groups of 6 and arguing about their rights. Eventually the ones with a chip on their shoulder would kick of, the police would then respond with arrests/removals. 20 mins later you'd get the photo of the peaceful (illegal) gathering you posted above, contrasted with an image of the police dealing with the idiots. We'll then be told we are in a facist police state, the police are the private army of a tory govt, and if one of those arrested happens to not be white or a woman....well you know the rest. You then get the police demonised on social media and corresponding protests for days afterwards.
I suspect in this case the police decided to leave the silly cunts above to giving each other covid.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Nope it's the shitstain of a political party that you keep voting for.

Even if the police had the manpower to clamp down which they don't, because, guess what, they're numbers have been cut over the past 10 years the courts don't have the capacity to deal with offenders, because guess what, the same clowns have been running down the criminal justice system. Cases are taking years to reach court and many are being dropped as not being in the public interest because it has taken so long to bring the case to court.

Party of law and order. What a fucking joke.

And I guess your version of lawless doesn't include your favourite politicians using tax payers money as if it were their own personal piggy bank.

I refer you to my post at the bottom of page 2.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Not sure where this rant belongs so I am starting a thread.

I am sick and tired of the wishy-washy claptrap coming out of the mouths of our senior police officers in the face of blatant and flagrant law-breaking. Every time we here phrases such as "We urge the public to act responsibly", "Ask people to follow the guidelines" or "We're impressed at how the public have worked with us during this pandemic". Urge? Ask? Worked with??? WTF are they talking about.

Like most of you I am sure, I am tired of the COVID-19 restrictions and the impact its had upon our daily lives. I yearn for a return to the pub, to meeting friends, to holiday, to footy games. But also like most of you, I have followed the rules because I understand its important, not just for my safety but so that I don't inadvertently and unknowingly infect and possibly kill someone else.

So it absolutely makes my blood boils when I see people who don't give a toss, just doing what they like and breaking the rules. Not only is this a 2-finger salute to the rest of us, it increases spread of infection, raises the risks of new variants, prolongs the duration of disruption to all of our lives. It is in short, cuntish behaviour.

The response to such cuntish behaviour should not be "We ask members of the public to act responsibly". It should be "We require", or "We instruct", "We mandate". And not "Follow guidelines" either. "Obey the law".

I'd like to see Chief Constables making it very clear that their forces REQUIRE people to OBEY THE LAW or face arrest and criminal prosecution. Not this "work with us" bollocks. For FAR too many people in this country, the law seems to be a loose set of guidelines to be followed or ignored as you wish, without any consequence. This has to change. Not just with respect to COVID, but generally. We've slumped to dismal level of lack of respect, lack of personal responsibility and we need to get back some semblence of common decency, so we are not leaving tons of litter in parks for example. We need to start spelling out the RULES clearly and start enforcing them more rigorously. No more of this "Have a word" and "educate" bullshit. We need arrests, fines and punishments. And many, many, many more of them. The twats need to begin to realise that the law is not an optional thing they can ignore with impunity.

Just a gentle reminder that the political party you support have cut front line police by 23000 , closed 667 police stations and got rid of god only knows how many support staff since 2010.

You reap what you sow.

 

[Chippy_boy]

What to do though? Send the police in in small numbers and they will be ignored. In large numbers then most folk would disperse, but a minority would sit there with their 25 mates claiming to be in groups of 6 and arguing about their rights. Eventually the ones with a chip on their shoulder would kick of, the police would then respond with arrests/removals. 20 mins later you'd get the photo of the peaceful (illegal) gathering you posted above, contrasted with an image of the police dealing with the idiots. We'll then be told we are in a facist police state, the police are the private army of a tory govt, and if one of those arrested happens to not be white or a woman....well you know the rest. You then get the police demonised on social media and corresponding protests for days afterwards.
I suspect in this case the police decided to leave the silly cunts above to giving each other covid.

I know. It's a challenge.

It starts however with the police (and the government) using the right language in the first place and making it clear (a) what the rules are, i.e. what the law is, and (b) that breaking the law is unacceptable. Why we have to phrase it with the "ask people to work with us" bullshit, is quite beyond me.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Just a gentle reminder that the political party you support have cut front line police by 23000 , closed 667 police stations and got rid of god only knows how many support staff since 2010.

You reap what you sow.

I refer you to my answer to dave blue above. And BTW, I support Conservative principles, not the political party you refer to per se. Unfortunately the other parties stand for fewer of the principles I hold dear, so voting for them is impossible. All but Labour are unable to form a government and I did not find Labour's inevitable swathes of tax increases on middle earners (not 1 or 2p here or there), even remotely acceptable.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I know. It's a challenge.

It starts however with the police (and the government) using the right language in the first place and making (a) what the rules are, i.e. what the law is, and (b) making it clear that breaking the law is unacceptable. Why we have to phrase it with the "ask people to work with us" bullshit, is quite beyond me.

Going back to your point about police leadership, like the heads of the armed forces they are more politicians than 'soldiers'. Cressida Dick at the met needs to tread a line that supports her force, but also doesn't feed the anti-establishment / police state loons delusions

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Need not mean tax hikes - just proper control over spending - not just the PPE scandal but there is a waste of space HS2 project that could/should be abandoned or postponed as given the pandemic I doubt the demand will be anything like predicted - then there's the bridge to Ireland/Magic Roundabout tunnel - its a fantasy I know but hundreds of millions of pounds will be spaffed on advisors, specialists and feasibility studies to conclude what we already know - its a non-starter. Thats just some money that could be found or not wasted that could be spent on the Courts and the Police.

Just collect the correct level of Corporation tax .... thats all thats needed.

If you paid £7 for your Netflix subscription last month ... you paid £7 more than Netflix did in UK Corporation tax last year.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I refer you to my answer to dave blue above. And BTW, I support Conservative principles, not the political party you refer to per se. Unfortunately the other parties stand for fewer of the principles I hold dear, so voting for them is impossible. All but Labour are unable to form a government and I did not find Labour's inevitable swathes of tax increases on middle earners (not 1 or 2p here or there), even remotely acceptable.

labour proposed nil tax increases on anyone earning below £80,000 in their manifesto.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Just collect the correct level of Corporation tax .... thats all thats needed.

If you paid £7 for your Netflix subscription last month ... you paid £7 more than Netflix did in UK Corporation tax last year.

Of course, how silly no-one thought of that sooner.

 

[Chippy_boy]

labour proposed nil tax increases on anyone earning below £80,000 in their manifesto.

Hahahahahahahaha.

A FAR less left-wing Blair/Brown government with FAR less ambitious spending plans, introduced about 150 different stealth taxes. You are incredibly naive if you think a Corbyn government would have funded all their plans without taxing middle earners. Scrub the "if".