Wishy washy policing

[stonerblue]

Bit short for a daily mail headline.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

It's ILLEGAL

End fucking of.

Why not just make it all caps? Actually the courts have said a complete ban would be disproportionate, so nice try.

Maybe take a breath or too and calm down, afterall you did start this thread in response to .... littering.

 

[stonerblue]

Absolutely.

We can all see that the police force is not perfect. You have bent coppers, vindictive coppers and coppers who overstep the mark. Some on that is inevitable with a body of 130,000 people. But even so, there may very well be too much of it.

But none of that changes Trevor's comments above. The police by-and-large do an outstanding job in very difficult circumstances. They went into the profession with the noblest of intentions and they get precious little reward, monetary or otherwise, for doing so.

Does that mean we should turn a blind eye to them breaking the law or acting improperly? No, it doesn't. But it does mean the starting point, unless we have evidence to the contrary, is an assumption that they are on our side doing their level best.

Bit of a contrast to your views on nurses and NHS staff

 

[Chippy_boy]

Bit of a contrast to your views on nurses and NHS staff

What nonsense. Some NHS staff are tossers just like some police officers are. The vast majority are not, obviously.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

What nonsense. Some NHS staff are tossers just like some police officers are. The vast majority are not, obviously.

It's a strange thing that we tend to think the worst of one emergency service (police) and not of the others. I suppose fire, ambulance, coastguard, NHS etc are essentially only seen when 'rescuing' us in some sense so are in simple terms more popular, while the police have to be the 'strict parent' and enforce rules. As you say, the ammount of tossers in any of these organisations is likely to reflect the proportion of tossers within the society from which they are drawn. I think it's possible that some 'victims' of the police may have crossed the tosser threshold themselves which is why the police are in attendance.
Of course this may be poppycock, and the truth is that the police are the nazi stormtroopers of a fascist state :-)

 

[Chippy_boy]

It's a strange thing that we tend to think the worst of one emergency service (police) and not of the others. I suppose fire, ambulance, coastguard, NHS etc are essentially only seen when 'rescuing' us in some sense so are in simple terms more popular, while the police have to be the 'strict parent' and enforce rules. As you say, the ammount of tossers in any of these organisations is likely to reflect the proportion of tossers within the society from which they are drawn. I think it's possible that some 'victims' of the police may have crossed the tosser threshold themselves which is why the police are in attendance.
Of course this may be poppycock, and the truth is that the police are the nazi stormtroopers of a fascist state :-)

I agree with you.

FWIW I think Stoner's confusion arises from this very disparity. It's been a puzzle to me why in the minds of the public, the NHS is beyond criticism, even to the extent that anyone who dares to say a word against it, is often subjected to abuse! But doctors and nurses and NHS staff in general are just people like the rest of us, and moreover they operate within an institution which has its pluses and minuses and absolutely is not beyond fault or improvement. People seem happy to criticise the police with abandon, but say a word against the NHS and you are pilloried.

 

[urban genie]

It isn't possible to use the comparison of the police and NHS when it comes to criticism of the institutions as they are completely different operations and the only thing in common is they fall under the emergency services banner.

Most peoples medical care will be with their GP and my GP is shite and impossible to see quickly and I generally have a negative opinion of the surgery, but when I have had to visit a hospital for treatment I have not had a bad experience yet, and many will equate the NHS with going to hospital not their doctors, so while GPs are routinely criticised (everyone I know has had a moan about theirs at some point), Hospitals are not and so it seems the NHS is beyond a slagging off where in truth many of it'a services are bad mouthed daily.


The police on the other hand are seen mainly as a national or regional force and criticised on the whole.

A lot of that will stem from the disintergration of local policing and the 80s where they were used as the governments strong arm troops against the working class, anti government protests and football fans.

Now where you grew up seeing the same coppers on your street and even if you were no fan had a begrudging respect for their work keeping the area safe, has gine and you are lucky if one will turn up if you call of just give you a crime number.

We don't even have a proper poloce station in our city centre(or fire station tbf) , never mind one in you local area any more, how can you respect a service that doesn't exist at a community level, this isn't the polices fault btw.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

Thought this was an "old man yells at cloud" parody thread for a minute. Has someone just discovered 2000 AD comics or something?

One thing I've noticed over the years is the sheer amount of older people who think they can easily identify the world's problems and present the solutions to make it a better place.

The only upside to this behaviour really is that the solutions are so half baked yet so confidently presented that you can at least have a laugh at the silliness of it.

If you think that the police can in any meaningful way enforce covid regulations on a nationwide scale then you're starting off at the wrong point; they are understaffed and ill equipped.

Just spend thirty seconds considering the logistics of it and I'd like to think you can appreciate where I'm coming from.

A problem that I believe I can identify (although I'm not going to pretend I know what the solution is) is that there is a whole lot of frustration leading to misplaced anger out there. This thread is a prime example.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Thought this was an "old man yells at cloud" parody thread for a minute. Has someone just discovered 2000 AD comics or something?

One thing I've noticed over the years is the sheer amount of older people who think they can easily identify the world's problems and present the solutions to make it a better place.

The only upside to this behaviour really is that the solutions are so half baked yet so confidently presented that you can at least have a laugh at the silliness of it.

If you think that the police can in any meaningful enforce covid regulations on a nationwide scale then you're starting off at the wrong point; they are understaffed and ill equipped.

Just spend thirty seconds considering the logistics of it and I'd like to think you can appreciate where I'm coming from.

A problem that I believe I can identify (although I'm not going to pretend I know what the solution is) is that there is a whole lot of frustration leading to misplaced anger out there. This thread is a prime example.

It's good to hear from someone with your experience and perspective mate. A lot of these threads tend to be taken over by policemen or retired ones preaching like they fucking know it all. No wonder the country is in such a state.

 

[stonerblue]

What nonsense. Some NHS staff are tossers just like some police officers are. The vast majority are not, obviously.

third sentence, second para'.

 

[metalblue]

I agree with you.

FWIW I think Stoner's confusion arises from this very disparity. It's been a puzzle to me why in the minds of the public, the NHS is beyond criticism, even to the extent that anyone who dares to say a word against it, is often subjected to abuse! But doctors and nurses and NHS staff in general are just people like the rest of us, and moreover they operate within an institution which has its pluses and minuses and absolutely is not beyond fault or improvement. People seem happy to criticise the police with abandon, but say a word against the NHS and you are pilloried.

And some nurses definitely show bias towards certain patients or their lifestyle.

A recent patients of Mrs MB was terminal and had a significant drug habit, a good number of the ward staff (but by no means all) had the attitude “brought it on themselves” and, I’m afraid, that did manifest in some less than acceptable care for this person.

This isn’t criticism it’s simply a consequence of us all being human.

A car dealer some moons ago told me a story of a guy who pitched up looking like a tramp with a carry bag. No body was really interested in serving him. Turns out the guy had been saving for years to buy a car and the bag was full of money. It’s hard to counter our own inbuilt bias but the moral is never judge a book by its cover. You see it on here with posters judging one another.

Most protestors turn up because they have a point they care passionately about. Most police want this protest to go off without issue. But sometimes a few on both sides don’t and when they meet the inevitable happens. Society can change peoples behaviours but it starts by calling out a **** for being a **** not excusing their behaviour.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Thought this was an "old man yells at cloud" parody thread for a minute. Has someone just discovered 2000 AD comics or something?

One thing I've noticed over the years is the sheer amount of older people who think they can easily identify the world's problems and present the solutions to make it a better place.

The only upside to this behaviour really is that the solutions are so half baked yet so confidently presented that you can at least have a laugh at the silliness of it.

If you think that the police can in any meaningful way enforce covid regulations on a nationwide scale then you're starting off at the wrong point; they are understaffed and ill equipped.

Just spend thirty seconds considering the logistics of it and I'd like to think you can appreciate where I'm coming from.

A problem that I believe I can identify (although I'm not going to pretend I know what the solution is) is that there is a whole lot of frustration leading to misplaced anger out there. This thread is a prime example.

You're completely missing the point.

The messaging being put out is all wrong and you don't need 500,000 police officers to get the messaging right. Police resources have got bigger all to do with what they say on TV and It's too soft. Too much "we ask the public to consider X". And not enough reminding them what the law is and that it is not optional.

And when it comes to punishments such as fixed penalties and arrests/prosecutions then of course you cannot do arrest everyone. Only an idiot would think so and I can only assume what you posted was misleading because only an idiot would imagine that's what was suggested.

But that does not mean you should just let virtually everyone off. Hardly anyone is getting punished and even organisers of illegal events are getting off far too lightly. Just look at the rave which took place outside Bath last summer/autumn. Of course the police could not arrest everyone. But surely they could have pulled the bloody mains plug out, confiscated the gear and arrested the DJ if no-one else? But no. They trucked up, decided they could not do anything and went home, allowing the rave to go on all night.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Maybe take a breath or too and calm down, afterall you did start this thread in response to .... littering.

No, I didn't actually.

I started it because I am sick and tired of the vast numbers of complete tossers in our society and our lax attitudes which have allowed and continue to allow a seemingly inexorable decline in values and personal responsibility.

 

[stonerblue]

You're completely missing the point.

The messaging being put out is all wrong and you don't need 500,000 police officers to get the messaging right. Police resources have got bigger all to do with what they say on TV and It's too soft. Too much "we ask the public to consider X". And not enough reminding them what the law is and that it is not optional.

And when it comes to punishments such as fixed penalties and arrests/prosecutions then of course you cannot do arrest everyone. Only an idiot would think so and I can only assume what you posted was misleading because only an idiot would imagine that's what was suggested.

But that does not mean you should just let virtually everyone off. Hardly anyone is getting punished and even organisers of illegal events are getting off far too lightly. Just look at the rave which took place outside Bath last summer/autumn. Of course the police could not arrest everyone. But surely they could have pulled the bloody mains plug out, confiscated the gear and arrested the DJ if no-one else? But no. They trucked up, decided they could not do anything and went home, allowing the rave to go on all night.

Organiser and 11 others arrested. Dunno about convictions. Vehicles, generators and other equipment seized.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Organiser and 11 others arrested. Dunno about convictions. Vehicles, generators and other equipment seized.

The day after.

Can we be clear about why you are arguing? Is it because you just like arguing?

Or is it because you are perfectly ok with mass gatherings in contravention of the law?

 

[stonerblue]

The day after.

Can we be clear about why you are arguing? Is it because you just like arguing?

Or is it because you are perfectly ok with mass gatherings in contravention of the law?

So what if it was the day after? Most people are arrested after the event. The point is they WERE arrested.

To be perfectly clear, having a differing opinion to yours and posting facts about something you brought up is not arguing.

I'm perfectly fine with coppers deciding that 4 bobbies and a pcso (exaggeration to make a point) couldn't safely disperse 3000 people so let them dance until 1am in a field in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

The messaging being put out is all wrong and you don't need 500,000 police officers to get the messaging right. Police resources have got buggar all to do with what they say on TV and It's too soft.

And what happens when millions of people effectively call your bluff? Even stronger wording?

And not enough reminding them what the law is and that it is not optional.

Unfortunately for you, the law is optional. The repercussions when caught breaking it might not be but everyone has a choice. Personally, I choose to break the law on an almost daily basis and do so unapologetically.

I also know many good people who have done a damn sight more than you or I to directly combat this pandemic who have also been flouting covid rules for a while.

Am I right to assume that you've spent the better part of a year following covid guidelines strictly and have been living in relative social isolation?

If that is the case, would I be right in assuming your frustration comes from others not following the rules as strictly as yourself and so, in effect, it seems like wasted effort on your part?

Well I think that's justified and completely understandable.

However, I'd suggest logging yourself out of whatever social media accounts you have (including this one) for a while and spending minimal time checking the news every day.

Otherwise you will end up going mad.

I'm not trying to patronise you, this is genuine advice but take it as you will.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

There's your problem

Absolutely. I have worked with people who, when we got round to talking about these kind of things, wanted the best health service in the world, a world class public service system, but wanted somwone else to pay for it!.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Am I right to assume that you've spent the better part of a year following covid guidelines strictly and have been living in relative social isolation?

If that is the case, would I be right in assuming your frustration comes from others not following the rules as strictly as yourself and so, in effect, it seems like wasted effort on your part?

Well I think that's justified and completely understandable.

Yes.

However, I'd suggest logging yourself out of whatever social media accounts you have (including this one) for a while and spending minimal time checking the news every day.

Otherwise you will end up going mad.

I'm not trying to patronise you, this is genuine advice but take it as you will.

I've also begun to realise that our nation is full of absolute twats. It's permeated with them. From silly things yesterday like me being stuck in the outside lane because some dickhead decides he wants to do 60 in a 70 limit, blocking the entire lane and then because I was stuck in the outside lane behind about 10 cars, trying to get left to make my turn off, another dickhead refuses to let me in after 1/4 mile of me indicating. And then when I push myself in - because I have to - he gives me the Vs. What an absolute twat.

Then at the supermarket, the woman with 3 loaves of the reduced bread under her arm sees me arriving about to take the remaining one, and snatches it away when my hand is like a foot away, leaving me with no bread. What a ****.

The country is jam packed with them. The tossers who truck up at these raves know full well they are illegal, but they have fuck all respect for the law and figure "well, what are the police going to do about it". It's a shite attitude. Maybe if they thought (a) they might actually get fined and (b) the fines were big enough, they might think twice about it.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Absolutely. I have worked with people who, when we got round to talking about these kind of things, wanted the best health service in the world, a world class public service system, but wanted somwone else to pay for it!.

That accounts for about 99% of the people on this forum I think.