The Scottish Politics thread

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Magicpole said:
Immigration needs to be managed. It needs to meet the needs of the country. It needs to be fair and just. It needs to remove the feeling that these people are stealing people a jobs. It isn't as fruit producers, Hospitality and our NHS shows. It should never be used as a weapon to appease thick racist gammons. We need it. People want to come here. If we get Indy I am will to bet our largest group will come from England. People who want a better life away from a Tory hell. I may be wrong, but I really believe that. And they will be welcomed, just as the 500,000 already happy here are. You fuckers make up 10% of our population, let's make that 15%. It's not about nationality, it's about values. People know what we are about and share them.
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Yes I agree with your sentiments and do dislike the whole Boris/Tory approach much as I found the whole Trmpian approach in the US appalling.
I fully support the rights of a country or group of people to use their voice and votes to gain what they want. If that means a independent Scotland or a United Ireland for that matter, then so be it...it is democracy in action and the way things should be.
But....surely that and your dislike of all things Tory is a completely different matter to where we first started this exchange?
You say that you hope and are certain that a new independent Scotland would have a fair and just and humane system...but that then suggests that you agree that there does in fact need to be some system in place.
In that case I would assume...Yes I know I am making an assumption there.....by the very fact you are accepting that there are rules it is highly likely that some people will not abide by those rules.
In that instance the new Scottish Immigration Service would have to then enforce those rules. Or would that be a case of simply writing to those individuals and asking them if they would be so good as to comply next time, or not commit that DUI/GBH or whatever it may be?...and if they don't, then what do you do?

What I find interesting and unsettling to a degree in this case is the action taken by the crowds based on rumours and half truths. Neither you nor I know the full details and yet the whole subject polarises and antagonises people so much. The flames fanned by the media and further bias or mis-reporting.
 
LGWIO said:
Yes I agree with your sentiments and do dislike the whole Boris/Tory approach much as I found the whole Trmpian approach in the US appalling.
I fully support the rights of a country or group of people to use their voice and votes to gain what they want. If that means a independent Scotland or a United Ireland for that matter, then so be it...it is democracy in action and the way things should be.
But....surely that and your dislike of all things Tory is a completely different matter to where we first started this exchange?
You say that you hope and are certain that a new independent Scotland would have a fair and just and humane system...but that then suggests that you agree that there does in fact need to be some system in place.
In that case I would assume...Yes I know I am making an assumption there.....by the very fact you are accepting that there are rules it is highly likely that some people will not abide by those rules.
In that instance the new Scottish Immigration Service would have to then enforce those rules. Or would that be a case of simply writing to those individuals and asking them if they would be so good as to comply next time, or not commit that DUI/GBH or whatever it may be?...and if they don't, then what do you do?

What I find interesting and unsettling to a degree in this case is the action taken by the crowds based on rumours and half truths. Neither you nor I know the full details and yet the whole subject polarises and antagonises people so much. The flames fanned by the media and further bias or mis-reporting.
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Both of the men have been here for ten years. One working as a mechanic, the other a chef. As for what will replace it, probably a system where when people are allowed to enter, they have been accepted and will be allowed to stay unless they turn out to be criminals. The response yesterday was and us a rejection of treating people like criminals because they are foreign. What kind of message does that send to the world about us as a people? A society? It says we are brutal and racist. Ten years they have been here and suddenly they have to go so Patel the ****, can point to figures of how she us ridding the country of undesirables. Well, the neighbours of those two men, who live beside them didn't agree. And had the balls to say fuck you Patel. This is unjust, it is demonising people, it is treating two working men contributing taxes and hard work to our country. My question is why the fuck don't you make a stand? Why do Tories win in the face of their corruption and ineptness? That us a bigger question than whst type if system we will.have in relation to immigration. Its why has England been conned into.believing a shower of lying bastards and why you roll over and do nothing to reclaim your country from people whose default position is hate and distrust? Once you even attempt to start that conversation, we will give you our support, but as long as you believe the, nothing to see attitude, we just shake our heads and ask, what the fuck happened to you? Most of the English people rejected the Tories too. They have to ask, how can we defeat them, we have the numbers. Johnson only got 44% of the vote. It is a pity that Labour are so inept, but, that can change, if effort and fight are put onto the field.
 
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True 500 years ago and still true today sadly. I will leave it to the Bard. Old Shaky. I like to think he would applaud what happened yesterday.

 
Magicpole said:
All I know is that whatever is put in place will be more humane and not dawn said shit. Our economy needs immigration so does yours, NHS, Farming, Hospitality, and so on. The difference us, we do t have a rabid group of people who want rid of people because they aren't Scots. Our view is they soon will be and are welcomed by the vast majority. We have all watched the Trumps, The Tories convince idiots the other is the problem. We are smart enough and not stupid enough not to realise who the real problem is. Windrush, Brexit, an increase in racial attacks and abuse it caused. We want no part of that and the fact that feeling is not shared down south is why we are where we are.
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England are doing away with the need for immigrant labour ..... by doing away with the industries needing them . (NHS, Agriculture , Hospitality and so on)
 
Here's an example of the bias from the Nazi pamphlet the Daily Hate Mail. Unlike people south of the border, we know they are lying right wing scum. One printed in England, the other here.
 

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Magicpole said:
If we get Indy I am will to bet our largest group will come from England.
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You keep us out mate - you don't want us fuckers coming there taking your jobs and women and being a burden on your local services.....oh and call us immigrants not ex-pats - that will get the gammon frothing to have the tables turned on them
 
Magicpole said:
Here's an example of the bias from the Nazi pamphlet the Daily Hate Mail. Unlike people south of the border, we know they are lying right wing scum. One printed in England, the other here.
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We’ll spotted. Scotland deserves better. The Diana story should always be in the more prominent position, the left.
 
Gabriel said:
We’ll spotted. Scotland deserves better. The Diana story should always be in the more prominent position, the left.
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Nobody reads it, so, whatever. Just showing you why. I will now away and pop round to my immigrant friends mansion, eighteen bathrooms, a turret and shark filled moat, and drink Chateaux Palmer 63, all night on his £34,000 a week Giro off shore account. He has a yacht too. Fucking belter. Helipad, the lot Fucking immigrsnts, coming over here, stealing our yachts , drinking our Chatau Palmer, having fucking helicopters. The world's gone mad.
 
Magicpole said:
Nobody reads it, so, whatever. Just showing you why. I will now away and pop round to my immigrant friends mansion, eighteen bathrooms, a turret and shark filled moat, and drink Chateaux Palmer 63, all night on his £34,000 a week Giro off shore account. He has a yacht too. Fucking belter. Helipad, the lot Fucking immigrsnts, coming over here, stealing our yachts , drinking our Chatau Palmer, having fucking helicopters. The world's gone mad.
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a mere £34k a week giro? Its true stereotyping - you Scots are tight...... we English pay immigrants £50k a week and give them a free beach house....... well thats what I read in the Daily Heil down here so that must be true lol
 
bluethrunthru said:
a mere £34k a week giro? Its true stereotyping - you Scots are tight...... we English pay immigrants £50k a week and give them a free beach house....... well thats what I read in the Daily Heil down here so that must be true lol
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We also give them the power of invisibility.and an ability to conjur a nutritious meal from fleeting glances. That probably swung it. But don't ask me, ask Tommy(not his real name) c/o Big Fuck Off Island. Yeah, the really big one. Rich Fucker Beach, Tax Haven Central, Seychelles.
 
There is an important report issued by the Social Justice and Fairness Commission. I have only read the management summary but it is pretty radical and certainly mirrors some of the approach that NZ government has taken. I want to read the whole thing before I comment more. Would be interested in others critical analysis of the content.

a taster from the intro;

Independence ensures that decisions about Scotland are taken by the people who live here. The transfer of powers to our Scottish Parliament will empower the people of Scotland, and present us with the opportunity to transform our country for the better. However, to build that better society, one with compassion and wellbeing at its heart, we need to use these powers differently. We need to reset the relationship between government, at every level, and the people it is there to serve, founded on a renewed social contract that delivers for the people of Scotland – a social contract focused on the realisation of our human rights and the pursuit of equality, which will guide all policy and spending decisions.

The remit of the Social Justice and Fairness Commission was to present a route map for delivering a fairer Scotland. Our destination is a wellbeing society that values and cares for everyone who lives here, based on the central principle that the function of government is to make life better for everyone and ensure no one is left behind. With independence, we can build on the progressive policies of the Scottish Government. Unconstrained by a constitutional ceiling on our ability to effect transformative change we can think afresh about the policies we can choose to pursue, and how we make those choices at every level in Scotland.
 
There is an interesting article just up on the Telegraph about English voters views about Scottish independence. They commissioned a poll and it found that most don't give a rats arse. Only 20% said they are strongly against it and overall there was a majority for it/couldn't care less.

As a committed Conservative voter I might be assumed to also be against it but I would be delighted to see an independent Scotland. I'm not a huge supporter of a 'United Kingdom' so any part that wants out is fine by me.
 
BobKowalski said:
Your lack of patriotism is noted with zero surprise.
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Can you explain your comment?

I am a firm supporter of our country as it currently is configured (unlike many left wingers) but if a certain part wants out, and especially if it wants to rejoin the EU, then I'm fine with that.

I certainly don't have a problem with British history and the past contribution from Scottish people but things change. If they now want out of the UK then that's fine by me.
 
Invisible Man's Bandage said:
Can you explain your comment?

I am a firm supporter of our country as it currently is configured (unlike many left wingers) but if a certain part wants out, and especially if it wants to rejoin the EU, then I'm fine with that.

I certainly don't have a problem with British history and the past contribution from Scottish people but things change. If they now want out of the UK then that's fine by me.
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You stated you were not a huge supporter of the United Kingdom.

I started your lack of patriotism for our country did not come as a surprise.

So far, Conservatives (of which you are one) have annexed off part of the UK to the EU, crippled the fishing sector, reduced trade with Europe, imposed tariffs on trade that has survived the cull, seen the trade deal with Norway collapse, thereby going nicely with the earlier failure to agree a fishing deal with Norway, and overseen the highest Covid death rate in Europe. And we are not even half way through the year.

I can only assume that the main feature of conservatism is an intense dislike of the United Kingdom and its inhabitants. A patriotic Govt that actively sought to promote and protect British interests rather than selling us out, would be welcome at this point.
 
BobKowalski said:
You stated you were not a huge supporter of the United Kingdom.

I started your lack of patriotism for our country did not come as a surprise.

So far, Conservatives (of which you are one) have annexed off part of the UK to the EU, crippled the fishing sector, reduced trade with Europe, imposed tariffs on trade that has survived the cull, seen the trade deal with Norway collapse, thereby going nicely with the earlier failure to agree a fishing deal with Norway, and overseen the highest Covid death rate in Europe. And we are not even half way through the year.

I can only assume that the main feature of conservatism is an intense dislike of the United Kingdom and its inhabitants. A patriotic Govt that actively sought to promote and protect British interests rather than selling us out, would be welcome at this point.
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Ah..so it's Brexit related?

That figures on this part of the forum.
 
Invisible Man's Bandage said:
There is an interesting article just up on the Telegraph about English voters views about Scottish independence. They commissioned a poll and it found that most don't give a rats arse. Only 20% said they are strongly against it and overall there was a majority for it/couldn't care less.

As a committed Conservative voter I might be assumed to also be against it but I would be delighted to see an independent Scotland. I'm not a huge supporter of a 'United Kingdom' so any part that wants out is fine by me.
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Whatever did happen to the Conservative and Unionist party?
 
Invisible Man's Bandage said:
Ah..so it's Brexit related?

That figures on this part of the forum.
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I forgot to mention the corruption...even the Daily Mail is gagging on the stench.

’ Priti Patel's SECOND bid to help her friend win PPE deal worth millions’

www.dailymail.co.uk

Priti Patel's SECOND bid to help friend win PPE deal worth millions

Leaked documents now show the Home Secretary pressed ministers and officials intervened to give a previously unreported £28.8million contract to a firm represented by Samir Jassal.
www.dailymail.co.uk
 
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