Champions League Final | Post-Match Thread

[cleavers]

Always against this team with this manager going to be a case of if they get that lucky goal on the break they will win.

There was nothing "lucky" about their goal, they'd had 3 similar chances before it. It was rank bad defending, started with Walker, involved both CB's (or more to the point didn't involve either), and ended with Zinchenko (not blaming him, he was trying to cover, but had no chance), and if Havertz had not scored, we'd have been down a man, with a sub goalkeeper to boot.

That's not bad luck, it's bad play, simple as that, and it stemmed from not having a tackler (fouler) in midfield for me.

 

[chedlee]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and maybe "tinker" is a word a tad overused. That said, his picking of the team "to win a game" left a lot to be desired. We'll never know though!

What we have to believe is that he didn’t pick a team to lose. Beyond that it is him and his team trying to work out how we win. Doesnt always work but is a damn sight more successful than any other manager. We will win the CL as despicable a competition as it is.

 

[HarrytheBlue]

A bit overdramatic I have to say although as a fan that prefers the league to CL, I could never understand the hold of that overhyped competition. Only a few weeks ago it was almost deem irrelevant had City not lead in pulling out of the ESL. It is a nice competition to win but it shouldn't be put up in a pedestal especially compared to the PL. Now that they've got the final experience, I'm expecting a better and more professional performance the next time they show up there. And please no more cringy and over the top promotions next time.

The leadership of our club see us as a Champions League outfit - it's now in the club's DNA. SM is here to win the Champions League. Many of our fans don't share that vision.

 

[Jesus2020]

There was nothing "lucky" about their goal, they'd had 3 similar chances before it. It was rank bad defending, started with Walker, involved both CB's (or more to the point didn't involve either), and ended with Zinchenko (not blaming him, he was trying to cover, but had no chance), and if Havertz had not scored, we'd have been down a man, with a sub goalkeeper to boot.

That's not bad luck, it's bad play, simple as that, and it stemmed from not having a tackler (fouler) in midfield for me.

Fair enough, appreciate someone explaining it to me better than I saw it then as I can only go from what I saw as a fan without the tactical knowledge. What I id notice before the game was that they go to cross it across in the box but pull it back and although we didn't get caught out this time it's something they tried and were unlucky not to get away with. Can't understand why no one involved with us didn't see that.

Zinchencko is only at left back because he's played better than he is. No offence to the lad but he's not CL final quality.

 

[BolinCell]

No I don’t think he got it right but there is a lot of stuff that happens between him naming a team and that team losing a game of football. Some it it is down to him some down to the players. Turn it round, he drops Sterling and plays Rodri or Fern and we lose, where’s the blame when players like Mahrez,Foden and De Bruyne just don’t do the things they normally do? Those three players and Bernardo just didn’t turn up last night and that had fuck all to do with Sterling playing, if it did then we are in a far worse situation than even the worst doom mongers suggest

Mahrez is Mahrez, forever cutting back inside and never getting to the by line for our trademark cutback goal. Sterling has had a stinker of a season, Walker causes more trouble to defenders than Mahrez. KDB moved forward with menace only to have to turn around and pass the ball back because their was little ahead of him. Foden the same little space to operate in and no forwards making runs because they were sat on the bench. I can't fathom how people don't understand that playing without recognised forwards (Aguero or Jesus) is a massive hindrance and just because it payed off when we had injuries to our forwards doesn't make it right. Several occasions during that match Chelsea passed to their own goalie on his goal line and he waited for City challenge then passed to a defender, the ball was then lumped over the top and they were on a break. That closing down would of been natural to a forward and the midfield would not of been dragged into the box.

 

[meltonblue]

Think some are focussing too much on the line up tbh, the issue was more how we pressed at the front rather than who we played at the base of midfield. The latter still contributed, but the bigger issue was us pressing their cbs too much and giving them an out ball to their full backs rather than into midfield.

Annoying he didn’t change it sooner though.

 

[PhdWave]

Damn....Yeah we lost but we go again..Holy shit Pep doesnt usually say such things. Cant wait for next season already

 

[AndyP68]

My final thoughts. Ultimately, in the biggest final in the clubs history, against a team that finished far behind us in the league, we didn’t pick our strongest starting XI when all the squad was available. I also think almost all the players, to a greater or lesser extent, froze. From top to bottom one of the worst performances in years in what was such an important game. So hugely disappointing.

The competition, like all knockout tournaments, has an element of unpredictability about it. I can’t see us having a better chance to win it. Yes, we may get others, but this was their for the taking and we blew it.

In years gone by I’ve not been as bothered, as I didn’t think we had a chance of winning it. This year though was different. I’d rather we’d have got knocked earlier than played so dreadfully.

The thing that really fucks me off though, is that our record goal scorer, talisman and still the best striker at the club by a mile not only didn’t start, but was only used at the death. I find that appalling.

Pep is a genius, but he’s flawed. Until he delivers the CL, his achievements will never better Mancini’s.

 

[chedlee]

Mahrez is Mahrez, forever cutting back inside and never getting to the by line for our trademark cutback goal. Sterling has had a stinker of a season, Walker causes more trouble to defenders than Mahrez. KDB moved forward with menace only to have to turn around and pass the ball back because their was little ahead of him. Foden the same little space to operate in and no forwards making runs because they were sat on the bench. I can't fathom how people don't understand that playing without recognised forwards (Aguero or Jesus) is a massive hindrance and just because it payed off when we had injuries to our forwards doesn't make it right. Several occasions during that match Chelsea passed to their own goalie on his goal line and he waited for City challenge then passed to a defender, the ball was then lumped over the top and they were on a break. That closing down would of been natural to a forward and the midfield would not of been dragged into the box.

It won us the league. We didn’t plan it probably didn’t want it but you cannot deny we won the league with deficiencies you detail.

 

[Corky]

Which side weren't you going to rotate from?

The best team, which it clearly wasn't. Two form players were played a lot deeper than they have played well most of the season, as well as the obvious omission and inclusion.

It seemed like he wanted to pick his favourites despite being imbalance and disjointed. Sterling played his way out of the team during the Everton game

 

[Darker blue moon]

For what’s its worth and reading these forums last week I believe everyone was too cocky and over confident. Saying the last two Chelsea wins were meaningless and with the top dogs playing for city you would be 3-0 up after 15 mins. This game was a one off and anything can happen which proved to be . Chelsea did a masterclass on City and played to their strengths and actually could have been 3-0 Up themselves in the first half. Chelsea also appeared to play as a team whereas city was 11 individuals thinking they are better then they actually are.
On the KBD challenge never a red card and I think it was a blessing in disguise that he went off as he lost possession 12 times up to that point. I just think Chelsea were up for it more and when that sacked frank halfway through the season and then changed their kit for the final as they did the season they beat Bayern who I might add are better then city the writing was on the wall. What’s interesting is all the pundits saying an easy win are in hiding somewhere. The darker shade of blue wins the day

 

[christened at st marks]

We need to develop 3 at the back to match up to the likes of Chelsea @ Leicester next season, we must be more flexible, we were exposed by their attacking wing backs, I'd love to see Tierney or Nuno Mendes added, Cancelo on the R/H side and Laporte replaced with the likes of Bastoni or another top quality left sided CB (if Laporte wants out). Only when we face quality 3 at the back teams.








Oh! and play a DM

 

[Kippax77]

We need to develop 3 at the back to match up to the likes of Chelsea @ Leicester next season, we must be more flexible, we were exposed by their attacking wing backs, I'd love to see Tierney or Nuno Mendes added, Cancelo on the R/H side and Laporte replaced with the likes of Bastoni or another top quality left sided CB (if Laporte wants out). Only when we face quality 3 at the back teams.








Oh! and play a DM

Iv often thought about us raiding Arsenal for Tierney.
Us sending Sterling the other way and also receiving some cash

 

[meltonblue]

We need to develop 3 at the back to match up to the likes of Chelsea @ Leicester next season, we must be more flexible, we were exposed by their attacking wing backs, I'd love to see Tierney or Nuno Mendes added, Cancelo on the R/H side and Laporte replaced with the likes of Bastoni or another top quality left sided CB (if Laporte wants out). Only when we face quality 3 at the back teams.








Oh! and play a DM

We always try and win the ball back from the front, why would we want to match up our defence (or play a dm?) We just need to make sure we get our pressing right to cover the initial out ball.

 

[cleavers]

Zinchencko is only at left back because he's played better than he is. No offence to the lad but he's not CL final quality.

Zinchenko plays there not because he's our best LB really, but because he can play into central midfield the way Pep wants, and he's been very good at it, but previoously we've almost always had a DM who can drop to make a back 3 if one of the FB's are further forward, this was a flaw yesterday because we played without one, so the CB's had no cover, and got pulled out of position too often in that first half.

 

[OB1]

I suppose it will be fourth time lucky.

I disagree that he needed to make any changes for this Chelsea game. No guarantee we would have won but we would have a least tried to have stopped Chelsea sauntering through midfield at will.

You are entitled to disagree but having lost twice to Chelsea recently, Pep's assessment, which will have gone far deeper than mine or yours, was that he needed to do something different. I think he was correct but his natural way of playing led him to try and go more offensive. I think he needed to be more defensive; however, our biggest problem against Chelsea has been breaking them down and scoring so I see his point of view.

I just think the time has come for him to go into some games and deliberately park the bus and try to make teams come out and leave us space to attack. Most of the time, our usual M.O. is fine but occasionally going against type at times would make us even more successful.

That approach would certainly have stopped Chelsea sauntering through our midfield.

 

[Blue Theatre]

Every season, an awful lot of people (mainly the press) pile loads of pressure on Pep to win the Champions League.

"It's the one the owners want / demand"
"It's why he was brought to the club in the first place"
"If he doesn't win it, this season will be classed as a failure"
etc

I know managers are used to pressure, but the pressure on Pep when it comes to the CL really isn't helping him ?
He was neither happy nor relaxed even before the game.

Ironically, we'd have a much better chance of winning it, if it didn't seem to matter so much.

 

[Kippax77]

Every season, an awful lot of people (mainly the press) pile loads of pressure on Pep to win the Champions League.

"It's the one the owners want / demand"
"It's why he was brought to the club in the first place"
"If he doesn't win it, this season will be classed as a failure"
etc

I know managers are used to pressure, but the pressure on Pep when it comes to the CL really isn't helping him ?
He was neither happy nor relaxed even before the game.

Ironically, we'd have a much better chance of winning it, if it didn't seem to matter so much.

It doesn't.
The Premier league is the most important every season.
Pep always says that

 

[cleavers]

He was neither happy nor relaxed even before the game.

Strange, I felt the absolute opposite, he seemed very happy, and if anything overly chilled about it all, I think he just assumed we'd win.

I've said this to a few today, but a final is FINAL, you either win or lose, I don't think only Pep thought we'd win, but a number of players did too, and there were a few that just didn't turn up.

Chelsea were the underdogs, and they played like it, a bit like Cheltenham did, not waiting to be beaten eventually, and not giving anything up easily, they put their bodies on the line for the cause, I didn't see anyone do that for us, until Jesus and Fernandhino came on (too late).

 

[argyle]

You are entitled to disagree but having lost twice to Chelsea recently, Pep's assessment, which will have gone far deeper than mine or yours, was that he needed to do something different. I think he was correct but his natural way of playing led him to try and go more offensive. I think he needed to be more defensive; however, our biggest problem against Chelsea has been breaking them down and scoring so I see his point of view.

I just think the time has come for him to go into some games and deliberately park the bus and try to make teams come out and leave us space to attack. Most of the time, our usual M.O. is fine but occasionally going against type at times would make us even more successful.

That approach would certainly have stopped Chelsea sauntering through our midfield.

On your first point I think what he needed to do differently was play our best players which hadn't done the previous two attempts.

On the second point I fully agree.