GB News

[Mr Kobayashi]

but still a bigot though

"There’s two things in the world I can't stand, people intolerant of other people's cultures and wetherspoons regulars. "

 

[Phil1]

Must admit, it's not my cup of tea as a pub but I'd be hesitant of lumping everyone under the same umbrella when slagging off a wetherspoons drinker.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Must admit, it's not my cup of tea as a pub but I'd be hesitant of lumping everyone under the same umbrella when slagging off a wetherspoons drinker.

Of course, it is the same as saying "people who shop at McDonald's" or "people who shop at sports direct" they're (inter)national brands whose success lies in catering for a broad customer base.

I just took it to be glib and shallow remark, and my post above is misquoting Austin Powers' daddy.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

All chain pubs are hideous, but faced with the choice of a John Smith's and fosters joint or a spoons, it's spoons all day long. Good range of cask ales which are well kept and decently priced. Food is a bit meh - Macdonalds of pub world, but like Macdonalds predictable and consistent for what it is. I'm assuming the characterisation of weatherspoons drinkers arises from the owners stance on brexit' and bad treatment of employees during furlough?
Worth the usual idiots considering that not all customers of spoons drink there because they endorse his views, but I suppose in a sad binary way we all have to choose a 'side' so their heads don't melt :-(

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

All chain pubs are hideous, but faced with the choice of a John Smith's and fosters joint or a spoons, it's spoons all day long. Good range of cask ales which are well kept and decently priced. Food is a bit meh - Macdonalds of pub world, but like Macdonalds predictable and consistent for what it is. I'm assuming the characterisation of weatherspoons drinkers arises from the owners stance on brexit' and bad treatment of employees during furlough?
Worth the usual idiots considering that not all customers of spoons drink there because they endorse his views, but I suppose in a sad binary way we all have to choose a 'side' so their heads don't melt :-(

This seems like an opinion. Are you okay?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

This seems like an opinion. Are you okay?

Yes thanks, anything worthwhile going on in your head?

 

[ROCKET80]

All racists will disagree with blm, which makes it easy to level the accusation of racism at at anyone else who disagrees with with blm. It's a slightly lazy but easy card to play if you want to shut people down and stifle debate.

Genuine question.

What are the issues non-racists have with BLM?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Genuine question.

What are the issues non-racists have with BLM?

Blm or the knee? I wouldn't know as I don't really care about either. Try Google?

 

[Rascal]

I think certain people (the racists, bigots and those leaning towards the far right) just want it to go away.
But not go away in an ''we've eradicated racism'' way, but more a 'swept under the rug' type go away.
A return of the status quo, if you will.

I think every sane person knows that footballers kneeling isn't gonna stop racism, and in truth trying to stop racism is likely, and very sadly, impossible in most of our lifetimes. It's just something you have to hope will subside over time, with every generation doing their bit to stamp it out.

What the kneeling does do, is it keeps an important topic on the agenda. The last 12 months involving kneeling has probably done more to keep the problem in the spotlight than Kick It Out has done in however many years they have been around.

I saw an interview with Sterling yesterday, and he talked about the importance of having difficult conversations.
If some footballers taking a knee for a few seconds makes someone feel uncomfortable then I don't think that's a bad thing.
For a select few, it's making them uncomfortable enough to boo, so at least it's easy to spot the bigots.

The footballers could sack off the kneeling for next season and I'm sure many won't be fussed either way. If they wanna keep doing it then great, and if they wanna knock it on the head that's also fine.

Whatever happens, I think it has sent out a powerful message over the recent months, and it's great to see footballers more empowered to speak out and confront issues that selected people are happy to turn a blind eye to.
After that infamous Chelsea game a couple of years back when Sterling called out the media (IE the odious Sun and Mail) for fuelling racism, that felt like an important marker was set down. All too often footballers get criticised for being airheads or living in their own little rich world, yet here was one of our own taking the fight to the tabloids and it was fantastic to see.

If this whole kneeling thing (regardless of when it ends) inspires another generation of footballers/supporters/people to be more socially aware, to feel like they can call things out, then I think it has been a success, and if it pisses off a few racists on the way then all the better.

Chapeau.

Martin Luther King took the knee in 1965 in Alabama to highlight racial segregation in the US , as far as I am aware nobody at that time accused MLK of being a Marxist, but as usual people in power try to cement their positions of power by spreading disinformation.

The narrative now is that taking the knee is associated with Floyd, when it has far more history than that but it suits the right wing to say you are kneeling in support of a movement that are Marxists and support a violent criminal. Just Like Andy Ngo, the far right shill, now associates protests in the US with ANTIFA, Communism etc

It is all a Capitalist backlash, the owners of Capital need division, division means less solidarity, less solidarity means lower wages, lower wages means higher profits, higher profits means more wealth for the owners of Capital.

Old white men, and it is older white men are frightened of losing their wealth and status, so they use portions of their wealth and status to fund shills/think tanks who will try and discredit the likes of BLM and ANTIFA, why? so they keep their wealth and status and if you fall for this con trick all you are doing is helping these older white men stay in positions of power, wealth and privilige.

 

[ROCKET80]

Blm or the knee? I wouldn't know as I don't really care about either. Try Google?

BLM, as I stated in the post replying to your post on BLM...apologies if that wasn't clear.

If you don't know or care though why say the below:

All racists will disagree with blm, which makes it easy to level the accusation of racism at at anyone else who disagrees with with blm. It's a slightly lazy but easy card to play if you want to shut people down and stifle debate.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

BLM, as I stated in the post replying to your post on BLM...apologies if that wasn't clear.

If you don't know or care though why say the below:

Because it seems true. Anyone who questions the rather broad and mixed policy intentions of blm tends to be characterised as either racist or far right. I'm all for racial equality, not so keen on defunding the police etc. I also think the knee has been in some senses hijacked to sooth white middle-class conscience rather than bring about actual change. The racism I think we need to deal with isn't the overt in your face stuff, but the more subtle discrimination that operates slightly under the radar - very like our class system in fact, to quietly deny opportunity to black people. I see value in the knee if it maintains pressure / awareness, but also a danger that it is becoming a token gesture that is a substitute for actual change.

 

[Zuriblue]

At least if the wierdos and cranks have somewhere to go talk to themselves

Lol!

But enough about GBeebies.

 

[BobKowalski]

Because it seems true. Anyone who questions the rather broad and mixed policy intentions of blm tends to be characterised as either racist or far right. I'm all for racial equality, not so keen on defunding the police etc. I also think the knee has been in some senses hijacked to sooth white middle-class conscience rather than bring about actual change. The racism I think we need to deal with isn't the overt in your face stuff, but the more subtle discrimination that operates slightly under the radar - very like our class system in fact, to quietly deny opportunity to black people. I see value in the knee if it maintains pressure / awareness, but also a danger that it is becoming a token gesture that is a substitute for actual change.

Defunding the police and the court system has been Tory policy for the last decade and seems to be very popular.

If taking the knee is just to sooth consciences, then I’m rather surprised the PM and Home Secretary came out against it, and even encouraged people to boo the gesture. That we had people booing and Tory MPs, media etc lining up to say how dangerous and divisive the gesture is, suggests that it has an impact.

That the England team has done well, also gives the gesture added impact. Symbolism is important, it’s why we have flags and anthems.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Defunding the police and the court system has been Tory policy for the last decade and seems to be very popular.

If taking the knee is just to sooth consciences, then I’m rather surprised the PM and Home Secretary came out against it, and even encouraged people to boo the gesture. That we had people booing and Tory MPs, media etc lining up to say how dangerous and divisive the gesture is, suggests that it has an impact.

That the England team has done well, also gives the gesture added impact. Symbolism is important, it’s why we have flags and anthems.

Absolutely Bob. I'm not really arguing to stop the knee, just for clarity as to why we do it, the (measurable) end goal, and the ability to ask those questions without being portrayed as 'anti' or the next poll pot. At present I feel it's part protest, part as you say symbolic, and also even to some extent commemoration / memorialisation. All of which are valid, but in this case thrown together as a bit of an ideological soup.

 

[stonerblue]

So anyone that disagrees with the aims of blm is racist?

How many fuckiing times do the manager, players and FA have to say why they take a knee before you underfuckingstand?

 

[west didsblue]

Absolutely Bob. I'm not really arguing to stop the knee, just for clarity as to why we do it, the (measurable) end goal, and the ability to ask those questions without being portrayed as 'anti' or the next poll pot. At present I feel it's part protest, part as you say symbolic, and also even to some extent commemoration / memorialisation. All of which are valid, but in this case thrown together as a bit of an ideological soup.

It's really not difficult to find out why if you really want to.

Directly from the FA:
They are doing this as a mechanism of peacefully protesting against discrimination, injustice, and inequality. This is personally important to the players and the values the team collectively represents.

This gesture of unity and fighting against inequality can be traced back as far as the 18th century. It is not new, and English football has made it very clear that it does not view this as being aligned to a political organisation or ideology. There can be no doubt as to why the players are taking the knee and what it represents in a footballing context.

 

[inbetween]

Because it seems true. Anyone who questions the rather broad and mixed policy intentions of blm tends to be characterised as either racist or far right. I'm all for racial equality, not so keen on defunding the police etc. I also think the knee has been in some senses hijacked to sooth white middle-class conscience rather than bring about actual change. The racism I think we need to deal with isn't the overt in your face stuff, but the more subtle discrimination that operates slightly under the radar - very like our class system in fact, to quietly deny opportunity to black people. I see value in the knee if it maintains pressure / awareness, but also a danger that it is becoming a token gesture that is a substitute for actual change.

The problem nowadays is everything is excessively political. If you aren't taking the knee then you must be a dirty Tory, right-wing so and so. The right similarly are the same where if you take the knee you are a woke Marxist. This is the definition of identity politics, but people shouldn't feel the need to be pressured into assuming any political identity and most people don't subscribe to either of these lobbies.

I am anti-racist but I don't feel any need to take the knee because I don't need to make a political statement to prove it. I actually think the knee is a powerful symbol for black people, it shouldn't be hijacked by white people being gas-lighted into showing that they care. Do we think that footballers really have any idea about anti-racist movements by taking the knee or are they just doing what they are told?

The same thing occurs on climate change where there is endless political debate and nonsense but actually the political aspect continually contributes nothing whatsoever to it.

You'd think that climate change activists would celebrate success and here in the UK the facts only show that we have been extremely successful in reducing our CO2 output over the years but of course that isn't mentioned by the political lobbies or the media. So on racism the same, many successes are occurring and it's only getting better but naturally that isn't mentioned because it ruins the political narrative.

 

[BobKowalski]

The problem nowadays is everything is excessively political. If you aren't taking the knee then you must be a dirty Tory, right-wing so and so. The right similarly are the same where if you take the knee you are a woke Marxist. This is the definition of identity politics, but people shouldn't feel the need to be pressured into assuming any political identity and most people don't subscribe to either of these lobbies.

I am anti-racist but I don't feel any need to take the knee because I don't need to make a political statement to prove it. I actually think the knee is a powerful symbol for black people, it shouldn't be hijacked by white people being gas-lighted into showing that they care. Do we think that footballers really have any idea about anti-racist movements by taking the knee or are they just doing what they are told?

The same thing occurs on climate change where there is endless political debate and nonsense but actually the political aspect continually contributes nothing whatsoever to it.

You'd think that climate change activists would celebrate success and here in the UK the facts only show that we have been extremely successful in reducing our CO2 output over the years but of course that isn't mentioned by the political lobbies or the media. So on racism the same, many successes are occurring and it's only getting better but naturally that isn't mentioned because it ruins the political narrative.

Bold of you to assume every white person is being gas-lighted, rather than just happening to agree with the gesture.

Also nice of you assume every footballer is too thick to have any understanding of anti-racist movements and just does as they are told.

Props on the drive by shooting of climate activists. Probably not the best of timing considering a Canadian village was incinerated in a heatwave that set record temperatures last week.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

It's really not difficult to find out why if you really want to.

Directly from the FA:
They are doing this as a mechanism of peacefully protesting against discrimination, injustice, and inequality. This is personally important to the players and the values the team collectively represents.

This gesture of unity and fighting against inequality can be traced back as far as the 18th century. It is not new, and English football has made it very clear that it does not view this as being aligned to a political organisation or ideology. There can be no doubt as to why the players are taking the knee and what it represents in a footballing context.

Absolutely, but without a definable end-goal it becomes a Father ~Ted ' down with that sort of thing' protest. Do footballers take the knee until all discrimination, injustice, and inequality end? I suspect it may be a while. Is there a measurable end goal?
Does it go on for 1,5,10,100,1000 years - forever even? I think until we can answer that and attach a concrete goal then we can't profess to even understand the problem, much less solve it. I'm not against it being forever either, if we are clear that we are memorialising black suffering in the same way perhaps as the holocaust for example - sometimes we need to keep the memory alive of how awful humanity has behaved to try and warn future generations and stop it happening again.

 

[BlueHammer85]

It's really not difficult to find out why if you really want to.

Directly from the FA:
They are doing this as a mechanism of peacefully protesting against discrimination, injustice, and inequality. This is personally important to the players and the values the team collectively represents.

This gesture of unity and fighting against inequality can be traced back as far as the 18th century. It is not new, and English football has made it very clear that it does not view this as being aligned to a political organisation or ideology. There can be no doubt as to why the players are taking the knee and what it represents in a footballing context.

boooooo! how dare they.