Keir Starmer

Fode N The Hole said:
Who knows when she uses Farage's dog whistle words such as "decent and working" ?

Didn't Orwell intend Big Brother to be a right wing totalitarian figure... :)
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Did he fuck, everyone knows he intended it to be a TV show that attracted loons, left and right ;-)
 
mat said:
I can confirm 2 of my union leaders insisted on staying on their former employee wage and the remainder of their wages gets paid into the hardship funds.


I don't understand why you have to bring that into the debate. Unless it's an excuse to attack "Union Barons" ( ©Right-wing media)
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It was a separate question as I’m unsure how the unions work Now. There was lots of talk about how much the union leaders were on but was thinking more of those that had full time jobs and then act as rep’s, etc.
 
lazerblue said:
no, he wasn't loony enough, gorgeous george galloway was loony enough though and turned out to be a propper full blown loon providing the "show" with one of the most bizarre moments ever
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Good mates aren't they?

George-Galloway-and-Nigel-Farage-Picture-Twitter-VirendraSharma.jpg
 
Didsbury Dave said:
I’m not a Starmer fan or a dyed in the wool Labour voter actually. I’m a political centrist who wants to look after the unfortunate whilst allowing business to flourish to pay for it. But I can see the damage to the country that Labour’s lurch to the left facilitated though inept opposition. I could see it at the time and kept my mouth shut and voted for Corbyn dutifully and I think that the left need to do the same or we are stuck with this abomination of a populist government. Loons is harsh, and left wing is a legitimate political view that I respect, but the way those people catcalled him was fucking pathetic and I bet that fat blonde **** and his Brexit lickspittles were laughing their cocks off.

They had their chance. They blew it big time and we are all now living with the consequences.
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When you say you are a political centrist who wants to look after the unfortunate whilst allowing business to flourish you fit neatly into the category of a One Nation Tory, a One Nation Tory is comfortable with free markets and is socially liberal in outlook and has a social conscience. Ken Clarke would probably be similar in outlook to you. The Tories in power now are free market extremists and culturally Conservative. The Tories just like Labour are a broad church of political opinion and at the moment the One Nation Tories (centrists) are on the fringes of what is now a populist movement hell bent on ideological minimalisation of the state because it believes that the free market answers all questions. That is the legacy of Keith Joseph the ideological driver of what we now call Thatcherism.

Those people, Thatcher included were rabid Pro EU, her legacy was the single market, the very single market many on the soft left, centrists and hard right of the Tory party now oppose. The Labour left in Bennite tradition were always anti EU, the Labour manifesto of 1983 included leaving the EU because the left saw it as a Neo-Liberal construct in hock with the Capitalists. The Labour Left also saw the EU as anti democratic and because the left are the real patriots in the UK (without the flag waving) it saw that the UK was being denied influence and self determination.

To put it simply, you can not be of the left and support the EU, so blaming the left for Brexit shows an ignorance of what the left has always been about. The soft left centrist Blairite part of the Labour party was always Pro EU and to fair to Blair he made a great case for membership and got many people onside with the Social Chapter which set minimal standards for workers rights which I applauded and I hoped the EU would become a fully federal state which at some point in the future could become a Socialist EU, but that is not going to happen because the owners of Capital run the EU, so we are better off out.

As for the Lying narcissist his idiocy and failure to be across his brief is the main reason Brexit is going wrong, blame him for it, it is his stupidity and overarching confidence in his own ability that has sold this country short, not the Labour party, although the Labour party and Starmer in particular with his flip flopping on brexit helped the lying cunts cause and split the Labour party asunder.

The sad thing is for me is that i saw a Labour party that echoed my views almost, but what was traduced daily and smeared hourly for all manner of ills yet had the best manifesto since 1982. It was not only attacked by the rabid fuckwits in the lunatic RW media but members and MPs in our own party. Socialism is a dirty word, its dirty because the owners of capital fear Socialism and they fund all manner of think tanks and media to persuade people that Socialism means the UK will be like North Korea, the ironic thing is that Priti Vacant wants us to be like North Korea.

For me, I believe Socialism is about dignity, it is about giving everyone dignity, from being able to work and feed your family to making sure those worse off can survive with dignity, its about making sure if you need to see a Doctor you can, if you want to borrow a book from a library you can, if you want decent police on the streets there are enough of them, if you need an ambulance you get one straight away, the schools our kids go to give them a decent education and a good start in life, industries that are natural monopolies should be publically owned so they can work for all not for profit for the few. We should have strong armed forces and equip them properly, we should have a world class infrastructure not a load of failing train companies given money to hand to their shareholders, we should pay a decent days wage for a decent days work but also tax those who get rich of the work others accordingly and make large corporations pay proper tax.

Nobody should be homeless, nobody should be hungry, nobody should be waiting 18 months for a referral to get help for mental health problems. We should be a country that acknowledges our imperial past and does its duty to those who need refuge from despots.

This country has become increasingly right wing fuelled by the media and Tufton Street mafia, but I do not believe this country is a right wing as the like of that horrible **** Farage make out, Patriotism does not belong to the flag waving loons on the far right it belongs to us all, because i can love my country and want a different path to what the self proclaimed patriots want and i do not believe we are that different. We want what is best for our country but see it differently that is all, but the RW are imbued with this culture war nonsense and that is damaging, its dividing us on issues that really have no consequence.

Yes I am a Socialist (spit everyone) but I am not a Socialist because I believe in trans rights or BLM or any other bogeyman cause the RW media attach to me, I am a Socialist because I want to make my life better and more importantly I want to make each and every person on the planets life better.

I wish Keir would see that instead of ostracising the likes of me.
 
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Rascal said:
When you say you are a political centrist who wants to look after the unfortunate whilst allowing business to flourish you fit neatly into the category of a One Nation Tory, a One Nation Tory is comfortable with free markets and is socially liberal in outlook and has a social conscience. Ken Clarke would probably be similar in outlook to you. The Tories in power now are free market extremists and culturally Conservative. The Tories just like Labour are a broad church of political opinion and at the moment the One Nation Tories (centrists) are on the fringes of what is now a populist movement hell bent on ideological minimalisation of the state because it believes that the free market answers all questions. That is the legacy of Keith Joseph the ideological driver of what we now call Thatcherism.

Those people, Thatcher included were rabid Pro EU, her legacy was the single market, the very single market many on the soft left, centrists and hard right of the Tory party now oppose. The Labour left in Bennite tradition were always anti EU, the Labour manifesto of 1983 included leaving the EU because the left saw it as a Neo-Liberal construct in hock with the Capitalists. The Labour Left also saw the EU as anti democratic and because the left are the real patriots in the UK (without the flag waving) it saw that the UK was being denied influence and self determination.

To put it simply, you can not be of the left and support the EU, so blaming the left for Brexit shows an ignorance of what the left has always been about. The soft left centrist Blairite part of the Labour party was always Pro EU and to fair to Blair he made a great case for membership and got many people onside with the Social Chapter which set minimal standards for workers rights which I applauded and I hoped the EU would become a fully federal state which at some point in the future could become a Socialist EU, but that is not going to happen because the wners of Capital run the EU
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I didn’t blame “the left” for Brexit. I blamed “the left” of the Labour Party for facilitating Brexit by putting up a shit candidate for Prime Minister, and surrounding him with shit people. This is what allowed a charlatan to take power. I didn’t take them to task for it at the time or rant about it. I gave them my vote.

But now they need to shut up and let Labour reinvent itself into an electable party. The dissenters at the conference are loons for not doing that. My point is that simple and I don’t really need the political history details because I know them: sensible politicians were and are pro EU, daft ones were and are anti EU, from all parties.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
I didn’t blame “the left” for Brexit. I blamed “the left” of the Labour Party for facilitating Brexit by putting up a shit candidate for Prime Minister, and surrounding him with shit people. This is what allowed a charlatan to take power. I didn’t take them to task for it at the time or rant about it. I gave them my vote.

But now they need to shut up and let Labour reinvent itself into an electable party. The dissenters at the conference are loons for not doing that. My point is that simple and I don’t really need the political history details because I know them: sensible politicians were and are pro EU, daft ones were and are anti EU, from all parties.
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You missed the rest of my post
 
west didsblue said:
I have no idea. It depends if you would rather not vote Labour because they’ve got a centrist leader and consequently enable the Tories to win another disastrous term in office.
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Well unless he lives in seat where Labour stand a chance of winning he shouldn't be voting Labour anyway.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
I wasn't asking about their profession, maybe you could name some specifically. I think you might be misinformed if you believe all of the decisions to prosecute were made or reviewed by Starmer.

He left the DPP in November 2013.

The event that sparked the pursuit of cases involving historic allegations was the death of Jimmy Savile in 2011. Operation Yewtree kicked off in 2012, Operation Midland in 2014. So come back and name names and cite specific examples you can link to Starmer or maybe you ought to admit you are running your mouth.
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A friend (who has stopped singing the praises of Brexit all of a sudden) mentioned Starmer and such cases (such as the Rotherham) but I didn't know off hand how much is involvement was and how much was mud slinging.
I think it's slowly dawning on him things are working out as he'd hoped.
Never voted Conservatives before in his life (he was always vitriolic at their mention).
Strange times.
 
west didsblue said:
I have no idea. It depends if you would rather not vote Labour because they’ve got a centrist leader and consequently enable the Tories to win another disastrous term in office.
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There was a time when i was not politically savvy enough and would vote Labour come what may.

I realised that I was voting for things I didn't believe in, it was negative democracy I was voting against a party I believed in less.

I want to vote for the issues that matter to me and if that means i vote for Lord Buckethead or even the Lib Dems (spit) I will because that is positive democracy. Myabe

I would obviously vote for the candidate furthest to the left in my constituency because that is what i believe.

My single vote matters not nationally, but it matters to me.
 
somapop said:
remaA friend (who has stopped singing the praises of Brexit all of a sudden) mentioned Starmer and such cases (such as the Rotherham) but I didn't know off hand how much is involvement was and how much was mud slinging.
I think it's slowly dawning on him things are working out as he'd hoped.
Never voted Conservatives before in his life (he was always vitriolic at their mention).
Strange times.
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Brexit messed up political alignment, it somehow strangely allied the far right and the far left and left the liberals in the centre being remain. But when you look at the centre , its liberalism and acceptance of free markets its not surprising. The far right and the hard left make strange bedfellows but they share the notion of patriotism and self determination. Benn and Enoch Powell were in agreement on this albeit from different perspectives.
 
Rascal said:
There was a time when i was not politically savvy enough and would vote Labour come what may.

I realised that I was voting for things I didn't believe in, it was negative democracy I was voting against a party I believed in less.

I want to vote for the issues that matter to me and if that means i vote for Lord Buckethead or even the Lib Dems (spit) I will because that is positive democracy. Myabe

I would obviously vote for the candidate furthest to the left in my constituency because that is what i believe.

My single vote matters not nationally, but it matters to me.
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I wouldn’t disagree with a word you say in normal times, but with this current government in charge who are clearly corrupt and care nothing about the future of the UK and are only in it for themselves, in a marginal seat I would set aside that approach to voting and vote for the party most likely to beat the Tory candidate. Anything else is enabling them to carry on destroying the fabric of our society and breaking up the union, all for their own personal gain.
 
west didsblue said:
I wouldn’t disagree with a word you say in normal times, but with this current government in charge who are clearly corrupt and care nothing about the future of the UK and are only in it for themselves, in a marginal seat I would set aside that approach to voting and vote for the party most likely to beat the Tory candidate. Anything else is enabling them to carry on destroying the fabric of our society and breaking up the union, all for their own personal gain.
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Ask yourself how many local MP's got in by one vote, ask yourself how many elections were decided on one vote. Then ask yourself what more can you do as an individual apart from vote for what you believe.

As an individual tactical voting is not only pointless but makes you responsible for the outcome.
 
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