COP26

[inbetween]

Yes location is always a major issue for any party not brave enough to do what is in the best interests of the country in the long run.

Expensive for sure but so is the transition to renewable energy and its clearly not as reliable particularly when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine so to speak.

Renewables actually can be very reliable but the problem is we waste so much of the generation in distribution. A lot of people have solar panels for example but whilst they're not using the generated supply the excess gets sent to the national grid where most of it is lost in the system.

I've looked into getting a home battery, something like the Tesla Powerwall so our solar panels can store any electricity that we don't use. The problem is such a battery costs overs £5k and that would probably take 10-15 years to pay off from the savings. The service life of such a battery though is not 15 years so by the time it starts to pay off I'll bloody need another one.

 

[mancity1]

Renewables actually can be very reliable but the problem is we waste so much of the generation in distribution. A lot of people have solar panels for example but whilst they're not using the generated supply the excess gets sent to the national grid where most of it is lost in the system.

I've looked into getting a home battery, something like the Tesla Powerwall so our solar panels can store any electricity that we don't use. The problem is such a battery costs overs £5k and that would probably take 10-15 years to pay off from the savings. The service life of such a battery though is not 15 years so by the time it starts to pay off I'll bloody need another one.

Presently only limited amounts of rare earth metals and other components can be recycled.

On land renewables in most countries need a massive overhaul of transmission lines to connect them to the grid especially in countries like Australia and will impact environmentally negatively in a number of ways without the question of how to compensate land owners for poles etc.

Their cost will come down over time but again the issue is how much co2 has to be emitted to produce the battery in the first place and how effectively it can be captured and stored.

As their cost of public and private subsidy rises the cost of electricity rises significantly when you have to rely on stable energy at non peak times in reality artificially driving up the price of fossil fuel electricity generation when you rely on it as the UK and the EU and US are finding out presently.

CCUS processes are still in the early stages and to date not that efficient or cost effective and it will be interesting how the first commercially viable means of capturing up to 90 per cent of co2 emitted in cement production and from power plants in Scandinavia for example fare.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Renewables actually can be very reliable but the problem is we waste so much of the generation in distribution. A lot of people have solar panels for example but whilst they're not using the generated supply the excess gets sent to the national grid where most of it is lost in the system.

I've looked into getting a home battery, something like the Tesla Powerwall so our solar panels can store any electricity that we don't use. The problem is such a battery costs overs £5k and that would probably take 10-15 years to pay off from the savings. The service life of such a battery though is not 15 years so by the time it starts to pay off I'll bloody need another one.

Similar to a report on the news today - a govt grant of £5k to put in a heat pump which costs around £10k to install.
It saves around £130 a year (in the report) - so nearly 40 years at that rate.

It needs a properly thought out longterm strategy, not headline-grabbing.

 

[pirate]

Similar to a report on the news today - a govt grant of £5k to put in a heat pump which costs around £10k to install.
It saves around £130 a year (in the report) - so nearly 40 years at that rate.

It needs a properly thought out longterm strategy, not headline-grabbing.

I am not fan of this govt (to be honest they are cunts) but not sure your figures are correct.
Its about £7.5K to buy and install that leaves about £2.5k for the consumer to pay.
You also have to factor in the cost of a new gas bolier which is about £2k, so installation costs are about the same to install, so the savings for the consumer are immediate or just a couple of years away.

 

[inbetween]

I am not fan of this govt (to be honest they are cunts) but not sure your figures are correct.
Its about £7.5K to buy and install that leaves about £2.5k for the consumer to pay.
You also have to factor in the cost of a new gas bolier which is about £2k, so installation costs are about the same to install, so the savings for the consumer are immediate or just a couple of years away.

From what I've read the subsidy (£450m) will only cover X amount of heat pump installations per year and it works out at around 90,000 per year max but there are 25 million homes in the UK.

At that rate they won't be done for at least 200 years.

 

[bluejon]

Similar to a report on the news today - a govt grant of £5k to put in a heat pump which costs around £10k to install.
It saves around £130 a year (in the report) - so nearly 40 years at that rate.

It needs a properly thought out longterm strategy, not headline-grabbing.

We recently looked into the possibility of a heat pump as our gas boiler had died a death. We live in a terrace in lev, and it's dead simple, we can't have one. You need space around your property which we don't have, so that's that. This announcement is the usual dollop of utter horseshit that might sound great, but has no substance.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I am not fan of this govt (to be honest they are cunts) but not sure your figures are correct.
Its about £7.5K to buy and install that leaves about £2.5k for the consumer to pay.
You also have to factor in the cost of a new gas bolier which is about £2k, so installation costs are about the same to install, so the savings for the consumer are immediate or just a couple of years away.

I have no idea myself - those were the figures quoted on the TV.

Good point about the costs of the alternatives (e.g. boilers).

 

[MillionMilesAway]

We recently looked into the possibility of a heat pump as our gas boiler had died a death. We live in a terrace in lev, and it's dead simple, we can't have one. You need space around your property which we don't have, so that's that. This announcement is the usual dollop of utter horseshit that might sound great, but has no substance.

I did see the size of the thing they were standing next to and thought it might be a problem in most places. I have a first floor flat!

as @inbetween touches on, it'll need a lot of engineers and time to fit them. It has a place, but only as part of a national, very expensive, plan. I don't see much in the Commons to suggest that is more than a pipe dream.

 

[bluejon]

I did see the size of the thing they were standing next to and thought it might be a problem in most places. I have a first floor flat!

as @inbetween touches on, it'll need a lot of engineers and time to fit them. It has a place, but only as part of a national, very expensive, plan. I don't see much in the Commons to suggest that is more than a pipe dream.

It's the usual Boris Johnson bullshit. Announce something which sounds great but as soon as you scratch the surface you realise it's garbage.

 

[bluethrunthru]

It's the usual Boris Johnson bullshit. Announce something which sounds great but as soon as you scratch the surface you realise it's garbage.

Headlines - it gets him headlines

 

[inbetween]

I did see the size of the thing they were standing next to and thought it might be a problem in most places. I have a first floor flat!

as @inbetween touches on, it'll need a lot of engineers and time to fit them. It has a place, but only as part of a national, very expensive, plan. I don't see much in the Commons to suggest that is more than a pipe dream.

Let's say it costs £5000 per installation and that has to be spread across 10 million homes, that's £50,000,000,000.... I don't even know what that number means (£50bn?) but what's been committed clearly isn't enough.

You can see why these things sound a good idea but in practice they're completely ridiculous.

I've just heard Boris say we will have zero emission flights but there is no such thing. Even electric cars don't emit nothing. Tesla's will soon be built in Germany and well that factory will emit something to power it and I don't know of any electric ships that can import them over here.

The biggest problem we have is coping with the fact that reducing consumption is the only way we can solve this problem. Having no car at all for example is 10000x better than having an electric car but has the government announced a massive investment in electrified cheap public transport? Nada.

 

[pirate]

From what I've read the subsidy (£450m) will only cover X amount of heat pump installations per year and it works out at around 90,000 per year max but there are 25 million homes in the UK.

At that rate they won't be done for at least 200 years.

thats true and it is a joke
but those 90,000 will benefit, its just that the government should be giving grants to 10 times that number if they were serious about impacting climate change

 

[inbetween]

thats true and it is a joke
but those 90,000 will benefit, its just that the government should be giving grants to 10 times that number if they were serious about impacting climate change

It probably isn't physically possible to do it quickly anyway but as always with this government at least they can rely on people to read but not to challenge.

To show how ridiculous it is, consider that they're spending half the cost of this subsidy on a new yacht for the Queen. They're also spending 100x that on a high speed rail project that no-one wants and no-one will use.

 

[mancity1]

thats true and it is a joke
but those 90,000 will benefit, its just that the government should be giving grants to 10 times that number if they were serious about impacting climate change

The sad thing is the UK according to fairly reliable data only emit around 1.0 per cent of the worlds co2.

Why go broke and ensure more people will freeze to death in the winter when if you shut down all man made co2 emitted in the UK will have no impact on the warming of the climate and that's not from me that's from the leading climate experts.

Everybody should just do their bit and say the richest 5 per cent of companies and 10 per cent of the population contribute to positive action in countries like those below without placing too many who live from wage to wage or government hand out to handout having to decide whether to feed the kids properly or keep the heating and lights on.

the issue of the planet is what to do with nations like Russia , India , China ( African nations in the future now that a vaccine for malaria will become available for children etc ) , Japan , Indonesia and the US not only today but over the next 40 years.

the doomsayers suggest its already too late.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

COP26. Where billionaires arrive in Glasgow in private jets and spend 2 weeks thinking up imaginative ways of getting people on minimum wage, to feel guilty, pay more tax and stop holidaying abroad, to save the climate

 

[MillionMilesAway]

From what I've read the subsidy (£450m) will only cover X amount of heat pump installations per year and it works out at around 90,000 per year max but there are 25 million homes in the UK.

At that rate they won't be done for at least 200 years.

It is only a replacement for gas/oil at the moment, so there are far fewer than that.

The BBC had some people in the field on just now answering questions, and the aim is to get to 600k/year by 2030, and that still sounds an awful lot. It was also said that the aim is partly to drive the heatpump business to improve/make itself cheaper by providing funding for it.

 

[BlueMoonday]

Nothing worse than upper and middle class tossers (who've done more harm to the planet than any of us) telling working families to cut down on emissions and do more for the planet.

How many helicopter rides has Prince William taken? He has more airlines than Father Christmas.

 

[BobKowalski]

Nothing worse than upper and middle class tossers (who've done more harm to the planet than any of us) telling working families to cut down on emissions and do more for the planet.

How many helicopter rides has Prince William taken? He has more airlines than Father Christmas.

Never quite understood that. Do you think middle class families don‘t work?

 

[bluethrunthru]

Headline - 80% of household roofs leak

Govt - we will subsidise the purchase of hooded jackets for everyone who needs one..........

Heat pump provision is to generate headlines and give the impression they are getting things done - just ignore the fact its inadequate. Insulation is what is needed - proper insulation. That and solar on every single new build.

 

[mancity1]

Never quite understood that. Do you think middle class families don‘t work?

Think it was on an economic scale of sorts where blue was singing from.

Many in agriculture , manufacturing and transport are not on the Shatner hit list to pass the Karman line Bob.

Yes we have tax scales based on income but green subsidies hit the poorest the most.

I get tired of the next king of England , elites , media , big banks telling the majority and high paid city dwellers etc virtue signalling on climate change , boring , ineffectual and does nothing for the environment nor did the many plane and chopper trips Sir David took around the world to narrate his work.

Charley Farley telling a reporter who used a gas guzzling car to interview him in his back yard that you could install 30 SMR's or have a wind farm installed that I run my 51 year old jag on wine FFS and only eat meat two days a week FFS.

If he was really a man of conviction he would find a way to stop breathing because that would do wonders for his co2 footprint.

the queen I hear has given up the plonk so lets hope she finds the secret to eternal life albeit she has even become more than apolitical in her formative years.