COP26

mancity1 said:
Yes location is always a major issue for any party not brave enough to do what is in the best interests of the country in the long run.

Expensive for sure but so is the transition to renewable energy and its clearly not as reliable particularly when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine so to speak.
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Renewables actually can be very reliable but the problem is we waste so much of the generation in distribution. A lot of people have solar panels for example but whilst they're not using the generated supply the excess gets sent to the national grid where most of it is lost in the system.

I've looked into getting a home battery, something like the Tesla Powerwall so our solar panels can store any electricity that we don't use. The problem is such a battery costs overs £5k and that would probably take 10-15 years to pay off from the savings. The service life of such a battery though is not 15 years so by the time it starts to pay off I'll bloody need another one.
 
inbetween said:
Renewables actually can be very reliable but the problem is we waste so much of the generation in distribution. A lot of people have solar panels for example but whilst they're not using the generated supply the excess gets sent to the national grid where most of it is lost in the system.

I've looked into getting a home battery, something like the Tesla Powerwall so our solar panels can store any electricity that we don't use. The problem is such a battery costs overs £5k and that would probably take 10-15 years to pay off from the savings. The service life of such a battery though is not 15 years so by the time it starts to pay off I'll bloody need another one.
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Presently only limited amounts of rare earth metals and other components can be recycled.

On land renewables in most countries need a massive overhaul of transmission lines to connect them to the grid especially in countries like Australia and will impact environmentally negatively in a number of ways without the question of how to compensate land owners for poles etc.

Their cost will come down over time but again the issue is how much co2 has to be emitted to produce the battery in the first place and how effectively it can be captured and stored.

As their cost of public and private subsidy rises the cost of electricity rises significantly when you have to rely on stable energy at non peak times in reality artificially driving up the price of fossil fuel electricity generation when you rely on it as the UK and the EU and US are finding out presently.

CCUS processes are still in the early stages and to date not that efficient or cost effective and it will be interesting how the first commercially viable means of capturing up to 90 per cent of co2 emitted in cement production and from power plants in Scandinavia for example fare.
 
inbetween said:
Renewables actually can be very reliable but the problem is we waste so much of the generation in distribution. A lot of people have solar panels for example but whilst they're not using the generated supply the excess gets sent to the national grid where most of it is lost in the system.

I've looked into getting a home battery, something like the Tesla Powerwall so our solar panels can store any electricity that we don't use. The problem is such a battery costs overs £5k and that would probably take 10-15 years to pay off from the savings. The service life of such a battery though is not 15 years so by the time it starts to pay off I'll bloody need another one.
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Similar to a report on the news today - a govt grant of £5k to put in a heat pump which costs around £10k to install.
It saves around £130 a year (in the report) - so nearly 40 years at that rate.

It needs a properly thought out longterm strategy, not headline-grabbing.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
Similar to a report on the news today - a govt grant of £5k to put in a heat pump which costs around £10k to install.
It saves around £130 a year (in the report) - so nearly 40 years at that rate.

It needs a properly thought out longterm strategy, not headline-grabbing.
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I am not fan of this govt (to be honest they are cunts) but not sure your figures are correct.
Its about £7.5K to buy and install that leaves about £2.5k for the consumer to pay.
You also have to factor in the cost of a new gas bolier which is about £2k, so installation costs are about the same to install, so the savings for the consumer are immediate or just a couple of years away.
 
pirate said:
I am not fan of this govt (to be honest they are cunts) but not sure your figures are correct.
Its about £7.5K to buy and install that leaves about £2.5k for the consumer to pay.
You also have to factor in the cost of a new gas bolier which is about £2k, so installation costs are about the same to install, so the savings for the consumer are immediate or just a couple of years away.
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From what I've read the subsidy (£450m) will only cover X amount of heat pump installations per year and it works out at around 90,000 per year max but there are 25 million homes in the UK.

At that rate they won't be done for at least 200 years.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
Similar to a report on the news today - a govt grant of £5k to put in a heat pump which costs around £10k to install.
It saves around £130 a year (in the report) - so nearly 40 years at that rate.

It needs a properly thought out longterm strategy, not headline-grabbing.
Click to expand...
We recently looked into the possibility of a heat pump as our gas boiler had died a death. We live in a terrace in lev, and it's dead simple, we can't have one. You need space around your property which we don't have, so that's that. This announcement is the usual dollop of utter horseshit that might sound great, but has no substance.
 
pirate said:
I am not fan of this govt (to be honest they are cunts) but not sure your figures are correct.
Its about £7.5K to buy and install that leaves about £2.5k for the consumer to pay.
You also have to factor in the cost of a new gas bolier which is about £2k, so installation costs are about the same to install, so the savings for the consumer are immediate or just a couple of years away.
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I have no idea myself - those were the figures quoted on the TV.

Good point about the costs of the alternatives (e.g. boilers).
 
bluejon said:
We recently looked into the possibility of a heat pump as our gas boiler had died a death. We live in a terrace in lev, and it's dead simple, we can't have one. You need space around your property which we don't have, so that's that. This announcement is the usual dollop of utter horseshit that might sound great, but has no substance.
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I did see the size of the thing they were standing next to and thought it might be a problem in most places. I have a first floor flat!

as @inbetween touches on, it'll need a lot of engineers and time to fit them. It has a place, but only as part of a national, very expensive, plan. I don't see much in the Commons to suggest that is more than a pipe dream.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
I did see the size of the thing they were standing next to and thought it might be a problem in most places. I have a first floor flat!

as @inbetween touches on, it'll need a lot of engineers and time to fit them. It has a place, but only as part of a national, very expensive, plan. I don't see much in the Commons to suggest that is more than a pipe dream.
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It's the usual Boris Johnson bullshit. Announce something which sounds great but as soon as you scratch the surface you realise it's garbage.
 
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