Coronavirus (2021) thread

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You talk about holding up but 67% effectiveness (after 2 Pfizer jabs) against hospitalisation for over 60s is not holding up in my book (and it's lower still for older age groups). And AZ will be worse

It's a good job the boosters work. That data underlines why it's so important to get boosters, particularly for the elderly
 
Gabriel said:
So, if I understand correctly, even with waning immunity, two doses would still appear to offer more protection than the average flu vaccine. Great news.
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You have different standards to me then. I think it's very alarming that Pfizer (the most effective of all vaccines) will leave a very significant number of elderly people exposed to hospitalisation.

This is going to be an absolute disaster for countries with large elderly populations who don't have booster programs, or whose booster programs are not well advanced.p

Remember we are facing an absolute avalanche of cases. It's now absolutely crucial that all elderly people get a booster.
 
inbetween said:
The regionality of this virus is really difficult to understand. We can see that most of London and the South East for example is bearing the brunt of Omicron yet the rest of the country is probably still wholly tackling Delta.

I'd imagine the same thing is happening in SA but weren't they struggling with Beta and not Delta? It's really complicated and I can only see that they're similarly probably fighting different variants in different areas. Coupled with low vaccination rates it's pretty obvious that deaths are inevitable with either variant.

A more interesting thing is that SA has continually remained on the UK Red List in the past not because of variants but because of low vaccination rates, poor reporting and probable poor sequencing which doesn't bode too well really.
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SA had been mostly Delta ( %90+ since July ) before Omicron hit and had been having a very steady low spell of cases,, very low since start of October which was when Delta was mostly dominant ( 93% at the start of oct ). they are now 100% Omicron.

By end of Nov they were 83% Omicron so Id say its safe to say that the excess deaths over there in the last 2 weeks of Nov of are omicron related.

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Marvin said:
You talk about holding up but 67% effectiveness (after 2 Pfizer jabs) against hospitalisation for over 60s is not holding up in my book (and it's lower still for older age groups). And AZ will be worse

It's a good job the boosters work. That data underlines why it's so important to get boosters, particularly for the elderly
Click to expand...

It's lower but not as low as expected, and still way above the threshold of what makes a vaccine effective. If these were the results of the very first vaccine trials, people would be pleased by them.

As for the elderly, remember that they were also vaccinated first so there will be more waning in that respect. Not that this should be disregarded of course, but still points to 2 doses working considerably better than a flu vaccine for instance.

The addition of boosters is a game changer, get them done asap and the difference will be phenomenal.
 
Marvin said:
You have different standards to me then. I think it's very alarming that Pfizer (the most effective of all vaccines) will leave a very significant number of elderly people exposed to hospitalisation.

This is going to be an absolute disaster for countries with large elderly populations who don't have booster programs, or whose booster programs are not well advanced.p

Remember we are facing an absolute avalanche of cases. It's now absolutely crucial that all elderly people get a booster.
Click to expand...
It still offers significant protection against a mutated variant, no? And I agree that it’s important that older people are prioritised for a booster around the world.
 
Gabriel said:
It still offers significant protection against a mutated variant, no? And I agree that it’s important that older people are prioritised for a booster around the world.
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60-69: 67%
70-79: 59%

Our data for an old UK population who got vaccinated by AZ a lot earlier will be worse imo. Use LFTs before visiting people you love and get boosted.

This seriously is time to be very careful. The one bonus we have is that the booster vaccination campaign.
 
Marvin said:
60-69: 67%
70-79: 59%

Our data for an old UK population who got vaccinated by AZ a lot earlier will be worse imo. Use LFTs before visiting people you love and get boosted.

This seriously is time to be very careful. The one bonus we have is that the booster vaccination campaign.
Click to expand...

Why are you assuming AZ would be worse? I remember seeing some info that AZ (adenovirus vector vaccines) actually produced more robust T-cells than the mRNA jabs and so if this is correct, we may actually have played a blinder by injecting our oldies with AZ. There isn’t enough data to make such a statement in reality other than perceiving AZ to be inferior.

(I’m under 40 but had 2 x AZ + Pfizer booster)

www.ox.ac.uk

T-cell ‘training grounds’ behind robust immune system response seen in adenovirus vaccines | University of Oxford

Adenovirus vaccine vectors, such as the ChAdOx1 nCov-19 construct which has risen to prominence as a major vaccine for COVID-19, may generate robust long-term immune system responses, according to scientists from the Universities of Oxford and the Cantonal Hospital St.Gallen, Switzerland.
www.ox.ac.uk www.ox.ac.uk

amp.theguardian.com

Moderna or Novavax after AstraZeneca jab confers high Covid immunity, study finds

Finding is good news for lower-income countries that have not yet completed their primary vaccination campaigns
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com
 
Marvin said:
60-69: 67%
70-79: 59%

Our data for an old UK population who got vaccinated by AZ a lot earlier will be worse imo. Use LFTs before visiting people you love and get boosted.

This seriously is time to be very careful. The one bonus we have is that the booster vaccination campaign.
Click to expand...

As I said, those age groups amongst the first to have been vaccinated so waning would obviously be more pronounced. They are also amongst the first to get boosted here, and remember that these studies only account for antibodies and not T Cells/B Cells which by all accounts do most of the work.
 
davealvers said:
Why are you assuming AZ would be worse? I remember seeing some info that AZ (adenovirus vector vaccines) actually produced more robust T-cells than the mRNA jabs and so if this is correct, we may actually have played a blinder by injecting our oldies with AZ. There isn’t enough data to make such a statement in reality other than perceiving AZ to be inferior.

(I’m under 40 but had 2 x AZ + Pfizer booster)

www.ox.ac.uk

T-cell ‘training grounds’ behind robust immune system response seen in adenovirus vaccines | University of Oxford

Adenovirus vaccine vectors, such as the ChAdOx1 nCov-19 construct which has risen to prominence as a major vaccine for COVID-19, may generate robust long-term immune system responses, according to scientists from the Universities of Oxford and the Cantonal Hospital St.Gallen, Switzerland.
www.ox.ac.uk www.ox.ac.uk

amp.theguardian.com

Moderna or Novavax after AstraZeneca jab confers high Covid immunity, study finds

Finding is good news for lower-income countries that have not yet completed their primary vaccination campaigns
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

PHE posted last week that AZ + 25 weeks = 10% protection. Pf + 25 weeks was 40%.
 
The evidence on Omicron coming out of South Africa continues to look encouraging.

The head of the South African Medical Association has just said the variant still seems to be causing milder symptoms than the previously dominant Delta virus.

Dr Angelique Coetzee told the Science and Technology Committee that even hospitalised patients needed care for half as long – and were less likely to need oxygen.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
The evidence on Omicron coming out of South Africa continues to look encouraging.

The head of the South African Medical Association has just said the variant still seems to be causing milder symptoms than the previously dominant Delta virus.

Dr Angelique Coetzee told the Science and Technology Committee that even hospitalised patients needed care for half as long – and were less likely to need oxygen.
Click to expand...
She's certainly very bullish about this isn't she.

Probably sensible to err on the side of caution, but fingers crossed.
 
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