Vaccination Passport | Fans will be denied entry without valid NHS pass

Octavian said:
Yes it fucking does!

Vaccinated people are significantly less likely to catch it and pass it on!
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Less is the word here. Less. In my workplace no one had covid. 90 percent of staff got vaccinated. It then spread. Obviously it wasn't because of the vaccination. But it definitely didn't stop the spread. It possibly made it less likely. But nevertheless it still spread.

You could argue everyone who got it wasn't as ill as they would of been. Maybe. Who knows? We don't have data for being ill with it or without it from them. But that's a separate discussion because what is being presented to us here is that it's to stop the spread. Which it doesn't. To reduce it. Well, it doesn't.

So it's either exceptionally intelligent people confusing themselves in semantics or it's someone else pushing for passports.
 
Jesus2020 said:
Less is the word here. Less. In my workplace no one had covid. 90 percent of staff got vaccinated. It then spread. Obviously it wasn't because of the vaccination. But it definitely didn't stop the spread. It possibly made it less likely. But nevertheless it still spread.

You could argue everyone who got it wasn't as ill as they would of been. Maybe. Who knows? We don't have data for being ill with it or without it from them. But that's a separate discussion because what is being presented to us here is that it's to stop the spread. Which it doesn't. To reduce it. Well, it doesn't.

So it's either exceptionally intelligent people confusing themselves in semantics or it's someone else pushing for passports.
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Yes we do have the data.

The data specifically says you are 32 times more like to die without 2 jabs than if you had them.

The data states that it makes it significantly less likely to end up with severe illness.

and it states you’re around 30% less likely to catch it and pass it on.

If your work wasn’t vaccinated, the spread would have been more severe, reaching more people and causing more serious illness and possibly death in some of those people.

I don’t mean to be rude, but don’t spout fucking bollocks about data without actually reading the data.
 
Octavian said:
Yes we do have the data.

The data specifically says you are 32 times more like to die without 2 jabs than if you had them.

The data states that it makes it significantly less likely to end up with severe illness.

and it states you’re around 30% less likely to catch it and pass it on.

If your work wasn’t vaccinated, the spread would have been more severe, reaching more people and causing more serious illness and possibly death in some of those people.

I don’t mean to be rude, but don’t spout fucking bollocks about data without actually reading the data.
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I actually referred to data among the people in my workplace who had covid. Does the data mean every single person who had covid in my workplace after being jabbed would definitely have been worse off? Can we really claim that? Because data is spurious. The data for the whole doesn't mean each individual will fall into the same category.

We all also know of loads of people who had covid without vaccinations who suffered relatively mild symptoms. But the data on a whole won't highlight this.

And yes, less likely, according to data, but just using this one example: if we took the data it would show a zero rate of infection pre vaccination. And one of around 50 percent post. So that data would conclude that vaccinations make it more likely for the virus to spread, in this instance. But we don't conclude this because we know that's not likely (unless maybe we consider the possibility that the vaccinated staff were less likely to social distance, wear masks, sanitise their hands etc) and because data is, like I said, spurious.

Even though you didn't mean to be rude, as data would suggest from your input, you still appeared to be.
 
Jesus2020 said:
Less is the word here. Less. In my workplace no one had covid. 90 percent of staff got vaccinated. It then spread. Obviously it wasn't because of the vaccination. But it definitely didn't stop the spread. It possibly made it less likely. But nevertheless it still spread.

You could argue everyone who got it wasn't as ill as they would of been. Maybe. Who knows? We don't have data for being ill with it or without it from them. But that's a separate discussion because what is being presented to us here is that it's to stop the spread. Which it doesn't. To reduce it. Well, it doesn't.

So it's either exceptionally intelligent people confusing themselves in semantics or it's someone else pushing for passports.
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yeah I said in an earlier post that looking out the high volume of people who are vaccinated but still catching and spreading the virus it makes more sense to prove you’ve 100% not got Covid and everyone who goes to the match have to show a negative LFT to get in

I think knowing this people would be much happier about attending

if everyone unvaccinated has done a LFT test before going to the game we know anyone who catches it at that match has caught it from a vaccinated person

it takes 5 minutes to do a LFT so for me it’s the way to go
 
bluemc1 said:
yeah I said in an earlier post that looking out the high volume of people who are vaccinated but still catching and spreading the virus it makes more sense to prove you’ve 100% not got Covid and everyone who goes to the match have to show a negative LFT to get in

I think knowing this people would be much happier about attending

if everyone unvaccinated has done a LFT test before going to the game we know anyone who catches it at that match has caught it from a vaccinated person

it takes 5 minutes to do a LFT so for me it’s the way to go
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Agreed.
 
bluemc1 said:
yeah I said in an earlier post that looking out the high volume of people who are vaccinated but still catching and spreading the virus it makes more sense to prove you’ve 100% not got Covid and everyone who goes to the match have to show a negative LFT to get in

I think knowing this people would be much happier about attending

if everyone unvaccinated has done a LFT test before going to the game we know anyone who catches it at that match has caught it from a vaccinated person

it takes 5 minutes to do a LFT so for me it’s the way to go
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It takes 30 mins for a LFT.
 
Jesus2020 said:
I actually referred to data among the people in my workplace who had covid. Does the data mean every single person who had covid in my workplace after being jabbed would definitely have been worse off? Can we really claim that? Because data is spurious. The data for the whole doesn't mean each individual will fall into the same category.

We all also know of loads of people who had covid without vaccinations who suffered relatively mild symptoms. But the data on a whole won't highlight this.

And yes, less likely, according to data, but just using this one example: if we took the data it would show a zero rate of infection pre vaccination. And one of around 50 percent post. So that data would conclude that vaccinations make it more likely for the virus to spread, in this instance. But we don't conclude this because we know that's not likely (unless maybe we consider the possibility that the vaccinated staff were less likely to social distance, wear masks, sanitise their hands etc) and because data is, like I said, spurious.

Even though you didn't mean to be rude, as data would suggest from your input, you still appeared to be.
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The first part of what you’re saying is what ifs and exceptions to the norm. Of course vaccinated people pass it on, of course they get sick, of course non vaccinated people avoid it… but in the main, across a large part of the population, you’re massively less likely to get severely ill and die if you’re double jabbed and with the chances of passing it on being 30% less, if you’re jabbed, it makes a huge difference over a population.

Why do you think we’re having days with under 200 deaths still, when we have 60k/70k/80k daily cases??

When we had 50k daily cases this time 11 months ago whilst in lockdown, there were nearly 1000 people dying every day.
 
Octavian said:
The first part of what you’re saying is what ifs and exceptions to the norm. Of course vaccinated people pass it on, of course they get sick, of course non vaccinated people avoid it… but in the main, across a large part of the population, you’re massively less likely to get severely ill and die if you’re double jabbed and with the chances of passing it on being 30% less, if you’re jabbed, it makes a huge difference over a population.

Why do you think we’re having days with under 200 deaths still, when we have 60k/70k/80k daily cases??

When we had 50k daily cases this time 11 months ago whilst in lockdown, there were nearly 1000 people dying every day.
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Why didn’t we have all this anti vax nonsense every year with the flu jab?

It’s the same principle.
 
Octavian said:
The first part of what you’re saying is what ifs and exceptions to the norm. Of course vaccinated people pass it on, of course they get sick, of course non vaccinated people avoid it… but in the main, across a large part of the population, you’re massively less likely to get severely ill and die if you’re double jabbed and with the chances of passing it on being 30% less, if you’re jabbed, it makes a huge difference over a population.

Why do you think we’re having days with under 200 deaths still, when we have 60k/70k/80k daily cases??

When we had 50k daily cases this time 11 months ago whilst in lockdown, there were nearly 1000 people dying every day.
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I agree. To a point. Who's less likely to die? Do you mean the vulnerable or...EVERYONE? Every single person who might catch it?

But yeah, I'm not disagreeing with the most part of what you've said. And I hope these vaccinations are working. I also hope there's no long term side effects that will outweigh anyone who's had it who, if having got covid, wouldn't of suffered much. Is there any data for that?
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Why didn’t we have all this anti vax nonsense every year with the flu jab?

It’s the same principle.
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What gets me is you can find examples ten a penny of anti vaxxers dying of Covid having called the whole thing a hoax.

Are people so thick they cannot learn from that?
 
Octavian said:
The first part of what you’re saying is what ifs and exceptions to the norm. Of course vaccinated people pass it on, of course they get sick, of course non vaccinated people avoid it… but in the main, across a large part of the population, you’re massively less likely to get severely ill and die if you’re double jabbed and with the chances of passing it on being 30% less, if you’re jabbed, it makes a huge difference over a population.

Why do you think we’re having days with under 200 deaths still, when we have 60k/70k/80k daily cases??

When we had 50k daily cases this time 11 months ago whilst in lockdown, there were nearly 1000 people dying every day.
Click to expand...

this is what I’m not understanding, ok the vaccine is doing it’s job in reducing serious illness and death as your figures show so we’re now facing greater restrictions, football matches being called off and another possible lockdown not based on serious illness and death but a rise in cases

we can’t have people’s lives put on hold for cases, how many cases even know they’re sick
 
Octavian said:
What gets me is you can find examples ten a penny of anti vaxxers dying of Covid having called the whole thing a hoax.

Are people so thick they cannot learn from that?
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Is it thick or so blinkered that they cannot see?

How can injecting bleach or a horse anti-parasitic drug be better than a scientific vaccine?

More reserch required.
 
Jesus2020 said:
I agree. To a point. Who's less likely to die? Do you mean the vulnerable or...EVERYONE? Every single person who might catch it?

But yeah, I'm not disagreeing with the most part of what you've said. And I hope these vaccinations are working. I also hope there's no long term side effects that will outweigh anyone who's had it who, if having got covid, wouldn't of suffered much. Is there any data for that?
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Whatever age you are, whatever level of vulnerability, if you have 2x jabs in your arm or more, you’re so significantly less likely to die from Covid, it’s often 32 times less.

Catching it and passing it on is only 30% less, granted, but that’s significant enough to make a big difference across a huge amount of people, it’s the difference between the NHS being under pressure or not being I would imagine.

Regarding your last point, there’s no real negative long term health implications found from the jab since testing in 2020. On the flip side many have long term lung issues from Covid and some even having issues long term with other major organs.

I’ll try and meet you half way, I don’t like Covid passports or passes to gain entry anywhere, it’s all a bit too much for me, but we’re in a massive health crisis and refusing to get the vaccine is pushing the government to more extreme measures to ensure we never go back to January 2021.

Just get the fucking jab and let’s get this thing beat.
 
bluemc1 said:
this is what I’m not understanding, ok the vaccine is doing it’s job in reducing serious illness and death as your figures show so we’re now facing greater restrictions, football matches being called off and another possible lockdown not based on serious illness and death but a rise in cases

we can’t have people’s lives put on hold for cases, how many cases even know they’re sick
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I completely agree but it’s not a particularly good idea to let cases get to numbers above 100,000 a day. I’m not in favour of restrictions or passports, I’m in favour of vaccines and getting more people vaccinated.
 
Octavian said:
Whatever age you are, whatever level of vulnerability, if you have 2x jabs in your arm or more, you’re so significantly less likely to die from Covid, it’s often 32 times less.

Catching it and passing it on is only 30% less, granted, but that’s significant enough to make a big difference across a huge amount of people, it’s the difference between the NHS being under pressure or not being I would imagine.

Regarding your last point, there’s no real negative long term health implications found from the jab since testing in 2020. On the flip side many have long term lung issues from Covid and some even having issues long term with other major organs.

I’ll try and meet you half way, I don’t like Covid passports or passes to gain entry anywhere, it’s all a bit too much for me, but we’re in a massive health crisis and refusing to get the vaccine is pushing the government to more extreme measures to ensure we never go back to January 2021.

Just get the fucking jab and let’s get this thing beat.
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Yes but for the benefit of the whole. To make the stats look better. Is there any guarantee that a healthy 16yr old needs a vaccination?
And that's not a very long time tbf. It's only a year. The rise in football related heart conditions concerns me but then again is this not that unusual? I don't know. And you know what the problem is? We've had years and years of misinformation, media owned and sponsored stories. Bill Gates made a significant donation to the guardian for example, amazon have done something similar...it means the information we get is and has been biased and often lies. It's hard to trust those same people when they're telling us to get vaccinated.
 
bluemc1 said:
yeah I said in an earlier post that looking out the high volume of people who are vaccinated but still catching and spreading the virus it makes more sense to prove you’ve 100% not got Covid and everyone who goes to the match have to show a negative LFT to get in

I think knowing this people would be much happier about attending

if everyone unvaccinated has done a LFT test before going to the game we know anyone who catches it at that match has caught it from a vaccinated person

it takes 5 minutes to do a LFT so for me it’s the way to go.
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The country running out of them may be an issue atm though.

What stocks we had a t work were being taken by everyone the past two days as the NHS are out of stock
 
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