Coronavirus (2021) thread

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RobMCFC said:
No, you are correct, it isn’t sensible, and that’s why it’s not the reality.

This government are far from sensible - in fact they are the worst government that I can remember in my lifetime, but they have also been given the biggest challenge of any post-war government.

However, I don’t think they are inventing a crisis in the way you suggest. It doesn’t make sense from any angle.

The simple fact that is upsetting people, perhaps understandably, is that crowding together indoors in the winter is a recipe for disaster. People are sticking their head in the sand and getting angry with the government and with SAGE and with anybody who suggests there might be a problem.

We all know the solution but some would prefer that the solution didn’t exist.
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Recipe for disaster for who?

No data coming out yet to back this up.
 
RobMCFC said:
No, you are correct, it isn’t sensible, and that’s why it’s not the reality.

This government are far from sensible - in fact they are the worst government that I can remember in my lifetime, but they have also been given the biggest challenge of any post-war government.

However, I don’t think they are inventing a crisis in the way you suggest. It doesn’t make sense from any angle.

The simple fact that is upsetting people, perhaps understandably, is that crowding together indoors in the winter is a recipe for disaster. People are sticking their head in the sand and getting angry with the government and with SAGE and with anybody who suggests there might be a problem.

We all know the solution but some would prefer that the solution didn’t exist.
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It suggests it is close to reality otherwise Medley would have explicitly said they model the most likely scenarios.

The solution to stop Covid spreading is to ban indoor mixing however that isn't compatible with a democratic society. Nor will people comply.

The alternative is that we accept that Covid is an endemic illness against which we've all been vaccinated and enjoy our lives.
The consequence of this may be thousands of deaths due to delayed hospital treatment however this is not a novel occurrence, and has happened every winter since the year dot. We have never cared about it before because there are 67m people in this country and it does not make sense to ruin all of their lives to save a few thousand. The only difference now is that it has been moralised and weaponised by the government and the media for 18 months.
 
RobMCFC said:
No, you are correct, it isn’t sensible, and that’s why it’s not the reality.

This government are far from sensible - in fact they are the worst government that I can remember in my lifetime, but they have also been given the biggest challenge of any post-war government.

However, I don’t think they are inventing a crisis in the way you suggest. It doesn’t make sense from any angle.

The simple fact that is upsetting people, perhaps understandably, is that crowding together indoors in the winter is a recipe for disaster. People are sticking their head in the sand and getting angry with the government and with SAGE and with anybody who suggests there might be a problem.

We all know the solution but some would prefer that the solution didn’t exist.
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It’s psychological with many people. Some are impressionable drawn into bullshit online, others don’t take it seriously enough because they can’t see the virus… if there was a terrorist cell murdering just under 200 people a day and had murdered 147,000 people in Britain in the last 22 months, they’d take it seriously and be actively doing something about it to protect themselves and others, but it’s a virus and it’s invisible, so they don’t.
 
RobMCFC said:
I don’t want authoritarian rule - I want people to behave in a socially responsible manner.

I’ve asked the question about three times in here tonight and nobody has attempted an answer. But hey, let’s ask again because somebody might be able to answer.

Why do governments want to force more restrictions on their populations? Is there some conspiracy theory that I can’t see?
The most logical answer I have is that there is a real possibility, however small, that health services could be overwhelmed.
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Because they are shit scared of being wrong.

You are correct in that they would not have to bring in these restrictions if the public was being sensible, which I believe the majority are but it only takes a small minority to keep it going.

But that does not mean they are making the correct decision by only choosing only to take notice of the worst case scenario.

Like with everything there has to be middle ground but as with everything in reality there is no middle ground.

They’ve brought in everything half heartedly. The “Covid Passport” is supposed to ensure that life can go on for the sensible, yet all that’s needed for the fools who oppose it is to click a few links online, input a blank LFT test ID code and state you are negative and you get a text immediately stating you are free to attend an indoor event. It’s pointless and it will just prolong things for longer then it should.
 
Claytop said:
Recipe for disaster for who?

No data coming out yet to back this up.
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Not yet. But you can’t claim there isn’t a problem 2 days after a worrying rise in cases. As I said many times in this thread recently, we’ll find out probably the end of the first week in January. Maybe then we can all breathe a sigh of relief and agree that it’s nowhere near as bad as it might have been.
Bluewonder said:
The solution to stop Covid spreading is to ban indoor mixing however that isn't compatible with a democratic society. Nor will people comply.

The alternative is that we accept that Covid is an endemic illness against which we've all been vaccinated and enjoy our lives.
The consequence of this may be thousands of deaths due to delayed hospital treatment however this is not a novel occurrence, and has happened every winter since the year dot. We have never cared about it before because there are 67m people in this country and it does not make sense to ruin all of their lives to save a few thousand. The only difference now is that it has been moralised and weaponised by the government and the media for 18 months.
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Talking about moralising an weaponising doesn’t change the situation - that’s just words.

Why are they moralising and weaponising? Again, is it because there is some dastardly scheme that we can’t see. It doesn’t make sense to me.

You are correct that stopping people mixing is not compatible in a democratic society. However, it’s not unreasonable to urge caution for a few weeks to protect the NHS. We’ve been largely restriction free since spring so it’s not too much to ask.
 
Bluewonder said:
I suggest reading the exchange with Fraser Nelson for full context.
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Does that include the context where he implicitly states that they model to inform policy and not dictate it?

And when being suggested by Fraser that what he actually does is model worst case scenarios for the government so they can dictate policy his simple reply was

"No I don't"

Screenshot_2021-12-18-22-52-25-82_0b2fce7a16bf2b728d6ffa28c8d60efb.jpg
 
Whatever we think of this government - and I think it’s safe to say most of us on this thread aren’t particularly fond of them - I don’t think they’re anything remotely close to the type of government who would put us into lockdown for shits and giggles and to control us. That’s conspiracy theory territory IMO. If anything, I believe if these decisions were up to Johnson and him alone, he’d have never put us into a lockdown in the first place when Covid hit, and the bodies really would’ve piled up as a result.

That’s not to say we’re definitely not going into another lockdown but if we do it will be on the advice of others. We might not agree with that (and I don’t see much in the data so far to justify it but that could all change of course) and many of us will be pissed off but I’m not having it that it’s just about controlling us.
 
RobMCFC said:
Not yet. But you can’t claim there isn’t a problem 2 days after a worrying rise in cases. As I said many times in this thread recently, we’ll find out probably the end of the first week in January. Maybe then we can all breathe a sigh of relief and agree that it’s nowhere near as bad as it might have been.

Talking about moralising an weaponising doesn’t change the situation - that’s just words.

Why are they moralising and weaponising? Again, is it because there is some dastardly scheme that we can’t see. It doesn’t make sense to me.

You are correct that stopping people mixing is not compatible in a democratic society. However, it’s not unreasonable to urge caution for a few weeks to protect the NHS. We’ve been largely restriction free since spring so it’s not too much to ask.
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They have weaponised and moralised by virtue of the relentless propaganda disseminated to 'encourage' compliance with their restrictions. The point of the propaganda was to control Covid when it was necessary to control it; before vaccinations. This is no longer necessary however the effects of that propaganda linger in society.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
That’s a very mixed up post.

There is empirical evidence that there is a need for vaccines, the benefit is being seen in that at the last peak of infections before vaccines we were averaging 1,200+ deaths per day but now we are surpassing those cases yet are under 200 deaths a day, the need to have them every six months (not three) is because of the vaccine waning after that amount of time while the virus is still ravaging its way through the world’s population.

You don’t get vaccinated against viruses and bacteria every three months that weren’t particularly transmissible, killed most of the people it infected soonafter transmission it wasn’t spread much, and didn’t mutate much so it was easy to eradicate. And when a virus/bacteria has stopped being seen in a population that population is stopped from being vacccinated against it (for example, tuberculosis; when I was at school the whole country had the TB jab when we were about 12, but now only areas where there are cases are given that vaccine at birth).

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but Covid is everywhere. Fucking everywhere!

There’s also nowhere near, NOWHERE NEAR, the risk of having a adverse vaccination reaction compared to actually transiting Covid… I must stress this again… NOWHERE BLOODY NEAR!

There are annual new vaccines against influenza, nobody has ever had a problem with that before. And SARS-CoV-2, being a Coronavirus, is fairly similar to an influenza various to a certain extent, as it’s highly transmissible, there’s a long incubation period so it’s spread easily and it mutates a lot which is why there’s a need for new vaccines every year…. but where Covid differs to influenzas is that it is more transmissible, and it’s more severe in its symptoms and how many it kills which is why more people need to be vaccinated that against flu.

In the Winter of 2017-18 there was serious talk around the world of having further restrictions - not just in hospitals - with the very bad flu season we had that Winter (there were restrictions to hospital visitors in a number of countries, zoned areas to treat flu away from other patients in a number of hospitals, with a number postponing and cancelling non-flu related appointments and operations… and there was talk of it needed to be taken further into society in some countries).

Nobody has ever promised there wouldn’t be anymore lockdowns. Nobody. That’s just made up in the minds of those who like to be controversial.

Have you ever seen or ever been bothered to ever look up any concrete evidence for the need for the vaccinations we give our children when they’re born or given when they’re in school? Have you ever researched that there may be something to worry about with the Rotavirus vaccine we all have as babies and that there may be new ways of administering it? No? Why?… for the simple fact that there’s been no big social media drive to push divisions about it, but there has with Covid and you’ve been drawn into thinking there might be a conspiracy or that there’s something to worry about.
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Brilliant post, it truly is.

I will just add though that the government did say they wanted to wait to lift restrictions last time so “we wouldn’t go back”. What that meant who knows but I took it as no more lockdowns.

I guess people are frustrated.

Your points about vaccinations are absolutely spot on and well articulated tho.
 
Bluewonder said:
They have weaponised and moralised by virtue of the relentless propaganda disseminated to 'encourage' compliance with their restrictions. The point of the propaganda was to control Covid when it was necessary to control it; before vaccinations. This is no longer necessary however the effects of that propaganda linger in society.
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Too early to say, but glad you are confident.
It might pay to be a bit more open-minded - it could save your life.
 
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