Religion

Two Gun Bob said:
On a personal level I think you do the man an injustice.

en.wikipedia.org

Christopher Hitchens - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Does God exist?

Willaim Craig v Hitchens. full debate. Its 2.5 hours long but an excellent introduction into that age old question.

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He makes some funny quips but his tactics for winning the argument is purposefully take sentences out of context and use hyperbole to dismantle the straw man.

I’ll give you an example, he often criticised Matthew 6:34 “Take therefore no thought for the morrow” by completely getting wrong what the passage was saying. The purpose of the passage was about ridding yourself of evil now. Hitchens suggested it was bad advice about not planning what you’re going to eat the following day.

I think he knew that tho as he only used to quote that single line out of the whole of Matthew 6:25-34.
 
Octavian said:
The book has been a major part of different civilisations across the world, sometimes shaping them. It’s the most important book in the world.

From a historical perspective it’s not reliable for historical fact but if you were a God wanting to bring people back to you, then the message is surely the most important. All 4 gospels tell you to put your faith in Jesus and that’s clear so the gospels have done their job.

There’s a reason there’s been more Christian’s than any other people on earth for over a 1000 years and it’s because the book does it’s job.
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Fear is the key
And there’s lot of it in there
 
tonea2003 said:
No I think they are writing for their intended audience
Lots of Roman and pagan gods to dispel
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Matthew is clearly writing with the intention of converting Jews to Christianity. There’s not much argument there, he’s doing his best to convince them Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. Luke caveats his gospel by saying he’s writing it from many accounts from other people, he doesn’t take any “glory” for himself to be fair.
 
tonea2003 said:
Fear is the key
And there’s lot of it in there
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Well yeah, most scholars see Jesus has a messianic preacher who thought the world was coming to an end and people needed to repent or else but a general thing sceptics get wrong is that they say it engages in fear for political reasons, when I don’t think it does.
 
Octavian said:
Well yeah, most scholars see Jesus has a messianic preacher who thought the world was coming to an end and people needed to repent or else but a general thing sceptics get wrong is that they say it engages in fear for political reasons, when I don’t think it does.
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No it’s simpler that I really think it is
The prospect of eternal life comes at a price
It may have had innocent beginnings but over time the smell of filthy lucre has shown its dirty hand
 
tonea2003 said:
No it’s simpler that I really think it is
The prospect of eternal life comes at a price
It may have had innocent beginnings but over time the smell of filthy lucre has shown its dirty hand
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I agree with the last part, it was a small group and was about saving your soul to begin with. The Catholic Church, as an example, with all its political power, money, corruption and crime is a world away from what the first Christians lived like and did.
 
Octavian said:
I agree with the last part, it was a small group and was about saving your soul to begin with. The Catholic Church, as an example, with all its political power, money, corruption and crime is a world away from what the first Christians lived like and did.
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The Catholic Church 'instructed' citizens to live their lives according their interpretation of a bible that most of those citizens couldn't read under fear of being 'smited' by their God if the didn't conform.
 
Octavian said:
The book has been a major part of different civilisations across the world, sometimes shaping them. It’s the most important book in the world.

From a historical perspective it’s not reliable for historical fact but if you were a God wanting to bring people back to you, then the message is surely the most important. All 4 gospels tell you to put your faith in Jesus and that’s clear so the gospels have done their job.

There’s a reason there’s been more Christian’s than any other people on earth for over a 1000 years and it’s because the book does it’s job.
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The book has failed. The reason for its growth throughout the world is simply down to the fear it promotes. That and the fact that the Romans made it punishable by death to reject it. People don't choose to believe in it.
 
Marklr said:
The book has failed. The reason for its growth throughout the world is simply down to the fear it promotes. That and the fact that the Romans made it punishable by death to reject it. People don't choose to believe in it.
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2.6 billion people follow it 2000 years later, how’s that a failure?
 
Marklr said:
Most people DON'T. Surely the aim was to convince AL people. Most people reject this god.
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No, it specially states most people won’t.


“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.”
 
Marklr said:
How should I interpret that quote? It's all debatable, isn't it? I can claim it means the road to Wythenshawe.
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Matthew 7 is where it’s from and the whole context of Matthew 7 is talking about salvation. So it’s not really debated what he meant by that, no.
 
Marklr said:


Matt educating the ego Jordan Peterson.
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Dillahunty couldn’t educate anyone.

I don’t mean to sound arrogant, as I never ended up getting qualified and am an amateur, but even I know more about the New Testament than him.
 
Octavian said:
Dillahunty couldn’t educate anyone.

I don’t mean to sound arrogant, as I never ended up getting qualified and am an amateur, but even I know more about the New Testament than him.
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That IS arrogant...and I very much doubt it. You couldn't possibly know that. And as he trained to become a minister, I very much doubt it.
 
Marklr said:
That IS arrogant...and I very much doubt it. You couldn't possibly know that. And as he trained to become a minister, I very much doubt it.
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Well it’s my honest opinion based on listening to him and I don’t think it’s that arrogant to say “even I”. He’s no scholar that’s for sure. Many Ministers have a shocking understanding of scripture too by the way so that doesn’t impress anyone.

As I’ve said, he’s the Alan Brazil of the religious debate world, he doesn’t have it in him to take someone to task over contradictions in the gospels as he never does that. He’s never gone up against someone who’s a scholar with a strong reputation, not that they would bother with someone of his pedigree anyway.
 
Octavian said:
Well it’s my honest opinion based on listening to him and I don’t think it’s that arrogant to say “even I”. He’s no scholar that’s for sure. Many Ministers have a shocking understanding of scripture too by the way so that doesn’t impress anyone.

As I’ve said, he’s the Alan Brazil of the religious debate world, he doesn’t have it in him to take someone to task over contradictions in the gospels as he never does that. He’s never gone up against someone who’s a scholar with a strong reputation, not that they would bother with someone of his pedigree anyway.
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Who are the scholars with strong reputations?
 
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