Russian invasion of Ukraine

[bluesteel]

You could call it the Collective Security Treaty Organisation or CSTO for short. It has nine members and it already exists.

Mexico has no plans to join.

Don't try to change my hypothetical situation. The fact is, if you believe RTO is the aggressor in my hypothetical situation (they are), they how can you think NATO aren't the aggressor now in real life?

America would behave the same as Russia in my hypothetical situation, they'd insist Mexico doesn't join the hypothetical RTO and build up troops on the border and invade if they had to, to give a buffer between US soil and Guatemala.

Then there would be numpties saying what if the US invade Mexico? They could then walk straight into Guatemala like the Spanish did with their expansionist militaristic government.

 

[bluesteel]

In that case the US would be the aggressor.

I disagree, I believe in self-defence.

If a group of people surround me and I feel threatened, and I attack one I'm not the aggressor.

 

[mexico1970]

I know a few people who don't believe anything the MSM say, instead they slavishly watch RT and take what is said as gospel.

Edgy is a euphemism in this case for stupidity.

 

[bluesteel]

Like I said earlier, I want NATO to offer Russia the same missile defence system as a de-escalation, let the Russians pay for it with the extra money from nord stream 2, invite Ukraine to NATO and make Russia give Crimea back.

I think everyone is happy with that, except maybe the weapons companies.

 

[Metal Biker]

I disagree, I believe in self-defence.

If a group of people surround me and I feel threatened, and I attack one I'm not the aggressor.

Yes you are. Until they physically attack you, they've done nothing wrong. Self-defence is when someone assaults or attempts to assault you and you react accordingly. You're perceiving a threat that doesn't exist. But that's also NOT what is happening here. Nobody is "surrounding" Russia. Ukraine feels threatened by Russia due to their "perceived" threat, so by your own admission, Ukraine has every right to join NATO, Russia does not want this to happen and is threatening war.

Why you persist in elevating Russia's stance is puzzling, when by rights, the only stance that needs to be heard is Ukraine's.

 

[Bazzmand Show]

I know a few people who don't believe anything the MSM say, instead they slavishly watch RT and take what is said as gospel.

Edgy is a euphemism in this case for stupidity

I know a few people who don't believe anything the MSM say, instead they slavishly watch RT and take what is said as gospel.

Edgy is a euphemism in this case for stupidity.

The thing that winds me up about these types the most, is they refuse to put the less mainstream news under the same level of scrutinity.

It's beyond irony.

 

[mexico1970]

The thing that winds me up about these types the most, is they refuse to put the less mainstream news under the same level of scrutinity.

It's beyond irony.

"Don't believe everything you read" is code for "Just read what I read and believe it".

And all the while prophesising just how intelligent they are about the monetary system, big pharma, and those bloody yanks. There's a small army of them out there who are prepared to believe anything as long as most of the sane people around them think the theory is batshit nuts.

 

[Bazzmand Show]

Whatever comes of this conflict, I suspect we will see more land seizures and geo political instability over resources as the climate crisis worsens over the coming decades.

Would not at a be surprised to see a China start taking more land in Asia aggressively.

 

[Metal Biker]

Like I said earlier, I want NATO to offer Russia the same missile defence system as a de-escalation, let the Russians pay for it with the extra money from nord stream 2, invite Ukraine to NATO and make Russia give Crimea back.

I think everyone is happy with that, except maybe the weapons companies.

Russia would never agree to pay for a missile defence system and will never accept Ukraine joining NATO. And Crimea isn't theirs to "give back", they've annexed it illegally.

 

[grunge]

Like I said earlier, I want NATO to offer Russia the same missile defence system as a de-escalation, let the Russians pay for it with the extra money from nord stream 2, invite Ukraine to NATO and make Russia give Crimea back.

I think everyone is happy with that, except maybe the weapons companies.

Russia's Hypersonic missiles make any missile defence system moot anyways at this point. they need a significant improvement to get close to blocking a hypersonic missile.

 

[grunge]

Whatever comes of this conflict, I suspect we will see more land seizures and geo political instability over resources as the climate crisis worsens over the coming decades.

Would not at a be surprised to see a China start taking more land in Asia aggressively.

If Russia invade Ukraine I fully expect China to invade Taiwan quickly after.

 

[SWP's back]

Your inability to draw inferences from written matter is alarming woeful. But carry on. Go ahead and support the Russian side and back their right to invade The Ukraine.

If you’ve read any of the previous 60 pages you’ll see he’s done nothing of the sort, quite the opposite in actual fact.

 

[SWP's back]

What benefit does NATO gain by invading Russia?

What purpose does NATO have for invading Russia?

Where is the evidence that NATO has been building up forces for an invasion of Russia?

You're comparing two situations that bear no resemblance to each other. Russia has already annexed part of Ukraine. Ukraine wants to join NATO. Russia has no right to decide what Ukraine does. Ukraine is not merely a "buffer".

I wondered what you were replying to as it appears I put him on ignore some time ago.

Good reply to a woeful post.

 

[bluesteel]

If Russia invade Ukraine I fully expect China to invade Taiwan quickly after.

So do I, very very bad times.

I'll add that I'll completely agree with what people are accusing the Russians of, in regards to China, if this does happen. I believe the Russian situation is a little more complicated than bad Russia invading Ukraine.

 

[SWP's back]

I see. Your pendentry has convinced me. I withdraw all of my previous remarks. Clearly it's OK for Russia to invade the Ukraine as a west-leaning Ukraine posses an existential threat to their dictatorship.

It’s not The Ukraine. It’s Ukraine.

 

[bluesteel]

I wondered what you were replying to as it appears I put him on ignore some time ago.

Good reply to a woeful post.

Haha, yeah he put me on ignore as I said I'm not having the vaccine until it was FDA approved, which it now is and I've now had both doses :)

 

[SWP's back]

Russia is actively occupying part of another nation. Nothing from you on that illegal action?


Actually it was set up to protect its members against Soviet Russian aggression, not specifically communism. Nothing appears to have changed on that regard


No its worse, its a dictatorship with militaristic ambitions of reclaiming former Soviet "territories" it has no right to claim.


"Your nuclear missiles?"


Which is completely correct. Russia has no right to prevent anyone from joining NATO. What if China wished to join NATO, would Russia invade Manchuria to create an imaginary "buffer zone"?


Anyone would think NATO countries intend to use their nuclear deterrent against them... which makes no sense because they're a deterrent, not an offensive strategy.


Aside from Iraq, what acts of "NATO aggression" has you concerned that if Ukraine becomes part of NATO and/or the EU that they'd launch an invasion of Russia? Do you honestly think that the Ukrainian Government would be in favour of having their country as the staging area for an Russian incursion?


Nobody. Wants. To. Invade. Russia! In what possible sense have NATO "acted aggressively" to Russia? Russia should be asking why does Ukraine feel the need to WANT to join NATO in the first place. NATO cannot tell another nation that they can't join if their elected government and people express a wish to want to join. That goes against everything that NATO was set up for in the first place. Ukraine fears Russian aggression, it's asked NATO for protection and help, but to qualify it must join and has expressed a wish to do so. Russia is losing its shit because after taking Crimea they feel bullish about occupying more Ukrainian territory. Who is the aggressor in this situation?!


NATO doesn't want to invade because they're trying to AVOID war. Russia is using war as a "give me what I want or else" tactic.

Stop it!! It’s unfair at this point, he’s already dead.

 

[Metal Biker]

Stop it!! It’s unfair at this point, he’s already dead.

What can I say, I like low hanging fruit! :)

 

[Deleted member 10327]

Nothing is going to happen. How do I know this you wonder.
The supermarket shelves are still stocked full of bog roll,pasta,rice,bottled water and tinned food.

 

[hammocity]

If Ukraine agrees not to join Nato the whole situation almost goes away, surely that’s the sensible thing to do to avoid a very serious threat to mankind.