Russian invasion of Ukraine

Churchlawtonblue said:
It's shocking isn't it? I have read people on here comparing him to Johnson. Johnson is a very poor PM , but you can't compare him to the ruthless dictator that is Putin.

Easy solution to this problem, Ukraine needs to rent or buy a nuclear submarine off the western powers. Putin is a bully an a thug but he isn't stupid he wouldn't attack a sovereign nation armed with nuclear weapons.
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Putin isn't an idiot, though. And Johnson would like to be a dictator. "King of the World" wasn't it?

And the world does not need even more countries with nuclear weapons.
 
Vic said:
British weaponry has been used to attack civilian targets in all sorts of places, and the usual excuse is that of the prostitute, "If we didn't sell it, someone else would".

Straying a bit off topic, except the arms trade always needs an enemy.
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Yes just hadn't heard Gaddafi described in such a way by someone from the UK. His support of the Ira is well documented, I think even our government considered him persona non grata.
No shamrock for Muammar.
 
west didsblue said:
You can compare the lying, narcissism and the personality cult. The willingness to rewrite laws for the sole reason of retaining power and getting their own way is also comparable.

Putin’s on another level when it comes to thuggishness, nationalism, cunning and being a danger to the world rather than just his own population. He’s playing the west and NATO like a fiddle.

The world laughs at us because of Johnson. They’re not laughing at Putin and Russia.
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They laugh at Johnson, they don't laugh at me or you.
 
mat said:
He's a ****. And he's played the west.

I'm not siding with him.

Years of watching his country crumble and watch the US take advantage of a pissed up leader in Yeltsin. He's bided his time. Now he's launching his controlled anger in a way that makes NATO look like warmongers.

That's not defending or supporting him.
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How has he exactly played the West. All he has gained is more attention accompanied by the threat of more isolation. If he has gained more pray tell?
 
Didsbury Dave said:
They do because we voted for him and his baby.
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Well we will have to disagree, whatever stupid things he says or does doesn't effect me when I'm abroad. No one has ever spoken to me about him, and I've been treated no differently because of him. I understand that some people may be worried about what others think, perhaps they are more insecure. But honestly I couldn't care less what other people and countries think of him, it doesn't bother or effect me in the slightest.
 
They were never going to fucking invade.

It's all a look at me/us and let's fuck with NATO and make them spend money they don't have and put gas prices up routine.

But it deflects from other more serious domestic issues, the biggest one, globally, being Pollution/Climate Change, so The West/Nato go along with it.

Or, and it wouldn't surprise me at all, they're all part of the same game.
 
west didsblue said:
No, they feel sorry for us which is worse.
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I've never experienced this , how do you know? I believe it is more your perception, and finally I seriously don't care if someone I don't know or never will feels sorry for me. I think that's more their issue than mine if at all true.

Back on topic, Putin is a whole level worse than Johnson. He has rapidly turned Russia from a budding democracy into a ruthless dictatorship, the opposition are jailed or murdered. Rrgardless of Johnson's many flaws and unsuitability to lead our country there is no comparison.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Well we will have to disagree, whatever stupid things he says or does doesn't effect me when I'm abroad. No one has ever spoken to me about him, and I've been treated no differently because of him. I understand that some people may be worried about what others think, perhaps they are more insecure. But honestly I couldn't care less what other people and countries think of him, it doesn't bother or effect me in the slightest.
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Being Irish, I can give a slightly related example of an outside opinion of Johnson. I was flicking through the Independent's live news ticker earlier on Ukraine. Scrolling through, I was reading what the different leaders from countries were saying on the matter. When Johnson popped up, i scrolled past without even a thought. That clown carries so little weight in my mind I subconsciously didn't give a fuck what he had to say. Later reflecting on this, I was a bit taken aback as he is the current PM of the UK and this is perhaps the closest we have been to war in Europe in decades. The man has sunk the UK to depths unimaginable and he is totally shameless about it. It's harrowing as he is going nowhere.
 
Dadsupportedthem said:
Being Irish, I can give a slightly related example of an outside opinion of Johnson. I was flicking through the Independent's live news ticker on Ukraine. Scrolling through, I was reading what the different leaders from countries were saying on the matter. When Johnson popped up, I subconsciously scrolled past without even a thought. That clown carries so little weight in my mind I really could not give a fuck what he has to say. Later reflecting on this, I was a bit taken aback as he is the current PM of the UK and this is perhaps the closest we have been to war in Europe in decades. The man has sunk the UK to depths unimaginable and he is totally shameless about it. It's harrowing as he is going nowhere.
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True, I don't disagree, I also scroll past his attention seeking drivel. The point we were discussing was, does it affect me what people like you think? And with no intended disrespect to your good self, I can honestly say it doesn't bother me personally what you think of Johnson.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
True, I don't disagree, I also scroll past his attention seeking drivel. The point we were discussing was, does it affect me what people like you think? And with no intended disrespect to your good self, I can honestly say it doesn't bother me personally what you think of Johnson.
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Currently it suits him to keep the threat level high - regardless of any truth - as it distracts people whilst he gets on with his shit
 
bluethrunthru said:
Currently it suits him to keep the threat level high - regardless of any truth - as it distracts people whilst he gets on with his shit
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Johnson or Putin?? LOL , Johnson likes the attention he is getting doing his international statesman impersonation as it is taking the spotlight off his mistakes and mismanagement at home, lol. But he isn't fooling many.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Johnson or Putin?? LOL , Johnson likes the attention he is getting doing his international statesman impersonation as it is taking the spotlight off his mistakes and mismanagement at home, lol. But he isn't fooling many.
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Johnson - there are now almost daily business and surveys showing how Brexit benefits was a myth - trade down barriers up - then there is Partygate - and Rees-Mogg telling Sun readers " we have no idea you tell us of the Brexit benefits - and the Met and on and on and on - so keeping the threat of Putin and other distractions help the charlatan stagger to a next weekend. He is currently happy for the Queen in a record breaking jubilee year to take the flak for him but as he will lie to her we should not be surprised.

Until this country is governed by a government of ministers who are public servants who have some honour and not full of MP's beholden to the hand that feeds them rather than the hands of those who elect them and would rather play tennis for cash with Russian Oligarch's we are fucked.

Five years ago can you believe the R/W supporting press would have front pages like this effectively attacking the Royal Family rather than highlighting things like High Court judgements against the Govt?

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bluethrunthru said:
Johnson - there are now almost daily business and surveys showing how Brexit benefits was a myth - trade down barriers up - then there is Partygate - and Rees-Mogg telling Sun readers " we have no idea you tell us of the Brexit benefits - and the Met and on and on and on - so keeping the threat of Putin and other distractions help the charlatan stagger to a next weekend. He is currently happy for the Queen in a record breaking jubilee year to take the flak for him but as he will lie to her we should not be surprised.

Until this country is governed by a government of ministers who are public servants who have some honour and not full of MP's beholden to the hand that feeds them rather than the hands of those who elect them and would rather play tennis for cash with Russian Oligarch's we are fucked.

Five years ago can you believe the R/W supporting press would have front pages like this effectively attacking the Royal Family rather than highlighting things like High Court judgements against the Govt?

Tomorrow's Papers Today - UK Front Pages - Latest Newspaper Headlines

All of UK's Tomorrow's Front Pages ✅ Updated Daily between 7PM - 11pm ✅ The Mail, Express, Times, Guardian and many more Proudly supporting #buyapaper
www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk
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I know by the number of posts you make on the subject that you have a bit of an obsession with Johnson. But this is the wrong thread, it's a debate about Ukraine and Russia which became slightly sidetracked. Anyway I'm off to bed to read my depressing book on the CIA and the lead up to 911. Good night.
 
Homar said:
Can you point out those valid reasons why the US should have hundreds of military bases surrounding its enemies, but Russia/China should not? I’ve yet to hear one good reason.

China is certainly the next preeminent super power. I’m not sure that I’d put Russia anywhere near the superpower bracket. Their economy is smaller than France’s and their military spending is a tiny fraction of the US’s.

Russia would claim that Crimea was historically a part of Russia, and that a majority of the people living there would prefer to be a part of Russia. China have always held claim to Taiwan. I’m not saying that they’re correct, but I think the situation is less black and white than the US would have you believe.

I completely disagree that a majority of the world favours US foreign policy. That view is a consequence of living in Europe and being exposed to western media. A majority of Europe perhaps, but certainly not a majority of the world.
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Whether the reasons are good enough are not for you and me to decide.

But lets start with Russia and as you have pointed out the 'Putin Doctrine' gave, what they believed, to be their right to annex the Crimea. That one move has embolden them and they'll no doubt look at using that excuse to claim back parts of the former USSR in the future (and now as we're seeing with the Ukraine). So quite rightly the Eastern European states are going to be very worried about this, Europe can't/won't stand up to Russia for varying reasons so the presence of the USA within the region keeps them in check.

Protecting ethnic Russians abroad is a convenient excuse. It's all about Geography for Putin. As for them not being a super power, they're nowhere near the the days of the cold war but their economy means very little when those at the top are making billions, that they control access to resources and Putin has huge influence on certain eastern European neighbors and in the middle east.

That brings me to China, they have their own version of the Putin Doctrine but it's done more through stealth and redistribution of the population into areas which they then claim to control via protection of it's investments and people. Again it's about geography, with Russia it's empire building and protection/fear of the west, with China it's access to resources. The US presence in the Pacific has ensured the protection of the countries that surround China, and in doing so thwarted their access to the three main ocean's. This is changing as China is heavily investing in it's Navy and pumping money into countries who are allowing them to create military bases there (see Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Djibouit), not to mention the influence they are having in Africa and a mass migration of Chinese workers creating satellite cities within African countries that the Chinese are investing heavily in.

I would not be surprised to see the formation of a Chinese ruled city state in Africa within the next 50-100 years.

For the record I never stated the world favours US foreign policy, merely the majority of the world's population sleeps easier at night because of it.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I've never experienced this , how do you know? I believe it is more your perception, and finally I seriously don't care if someone I don't know or never will feels sorry for me. I think that's more their issue than mine if at all true.

Back on topic, Putin is a whole level worse than Johnson. He has rapidly turned Russia from a budding democracy into a ruthless dictatorship, the opposition are jailed or murdered. Rrgardless of Johnson's many flaws and unsuitability to lead our country there is no comparison.
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Can't argue with that. So far Johnson has only helped arrange for a journalist to be beaten up.
 
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