Everton (a) post-match thread

[Vic]

The question here is whether this pic is BEFORE, DURING or AFTER the ball makes contact with Rodri.

It is only important if it is DURING, in which case it is definitely a borderline decision either way.

Given that, it was NOT a “clear and obvious error.”

The ref said he couldn’t see it. He relied on VAR, and VAR clearly determined they couldn’t say it WAS handball, based on the new “T-shirt line” handball definition in the LoTG.

View attachment 37462

There is no mention of T-shirt in the laws.

 

[WestGorton]

I hope everyone came back hubcaps intact.

 

[Vic]

No, deliberate is not a factor. No such thing now as "accidental" handball, only technical questions about position of the arm and proximity (too close to avoid the ball).

The red pundits said that about the TAA handball at Anfield!

Refining that answer a bit.... deliberate is still there in the law but it's a bit pointless now that a non-deliberate handball (e.g. with the arm in an unnatural position) can be given as handball.

"

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball"

 

[halfcenturyup]

There is no mention of T-shirt in the laws.

It's in the guidance, is it? Or is it another piece of media nonsense?

And what is this red zone/green zone thing supposed to mean anyway? Is it where the centre of the ball touches? Any of the ball touches? Any of the ball in the green zone whether the ball is touching or not?

For what it is worth, I think the referees generally give decisions honestly based on the laws and the guidance they receive, but no-one explains the decisions to supporters, media and especially stupid pundits.

No wonder no-one watching can understand what is going on.

 

[Norbiton]

Why did the ref signal off side then?

Because the game was stopped for an offside after the handball incident. That’s when the VAR check happened. As the verdict was no penalty, the game resumed with a free kick for that, post-incident, offside decision

 

[the blue panther]

The question here is whether this pic is BEFORE, DURING or AFTER the ball makes contact with Rodri.

It is only important if it is DURING, in which case it is definitely a borderline decision either way.

Given that, it was NOT a “clear and obvious error.”

The ref said he couldn’t see it. He relied on VAR, and VAR clearly determined they couldn’t say it WAS handball, based on the new “T-shirt line” handball definition in the LoTG.

View attachment 37462

You win some, you lose some. How many penalties have we been denied over the years?
I remember being at Southampton a couple of seasons ago when Aguero was booted in the penalty area, went down, then was booked for diving! We all know of countless less obvious ones, but, VAR's doing well for us this season - at last. Whoever complains, fuck'em!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

There is no mention of T-shirt in the laws.

It’s in quotes to simplify what I was talking about. Let’s not play dumb.

####

Ifab Law 12: Fouls and misconduct

Handling the ball:

For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.
My edit: This is being commonly referred to as the T-Shirt line.

It is an offence if a player:

- deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball

- scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper

- after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if accidental, immediately:

— scores in the opponents’ goal
— creates a goal-scoring opportunity
— touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
. the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
. the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)

The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.

Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:

- directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
- directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
- if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger.

####

A picture, with green and red zones was posted earlier.

I hope that is sufficient clarification?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

You win some, you lose some. How many penalties have we been denied over the years?
I remember being at Southampton a couple of seasons ago when Aguero was booted in the penalty area, went down, then was booked for diving! We all know of countless less obvious ones, but, VAR's doing well for us this season - at last. Whoever complains, fuck'em!

I think we would ALL like VAR to simply be fair and unbiased. In the absence of that, I’ll gladly take it working in our favor every now and then, because it rarely feels like ANY ref decision does.



This wasn’t even given as a foul, let alone a penalty and a red card!

 

[Doctor Jimmy and Mr Jim]

That hurt my head reading that.
VAR deemed It was not a penalty because there was an offside in the build up to the handball. simple.

No...incorrect. Read it again. There was no offside in the build up to the handball, the offside occurred afterwards.

 

[Petetheblu]

Fuck you Cilla Black, Fuck you Jamie Carragher, Fuck you John Barnes, Fuck you Liam Neeson, Fuck you Samuel Jackson, Fuck you Daniel Craig, Fuck you Steven Gerrard, Fuck you Danny Murphy, Fuck you Steve Mcmanamon, Fuck you Kelly Dalglish, Fuck you Mike Myers, Fuck you Dr Dre, Fuck you Angelina Jolie, Fuck you John Bishop, Fuck you Nelson Mandela, Fuck you Ricky Tomlinson, Fuck you Michael Owen, Fuck you Lebron James, Fuck you John Aldridge, Fuck you Ian Rush, Fuck you Kenny Dalglish, Fuck you Phil Thompson, Fuck the Merseyside Police, fuck the biased refs and commentators, Fuck you Kilppety Klopp and Fuck you each and every bin dipping vermin bus attacking cunts!
Fuck you All!
Fuck you!

John Bishop is half Manc, he married a Manchester girl and lived here for a long period of time during his Manchester University day.

 

[HarrytheBlue]

Even if they don't agree with their interpretation on the handball itself, they can't argue that they shouldn't have also checked for an offside in the build up. They never said it wasn't offside, they said it wasn't the reason they dismissed it.

I don't even think we need lines to see Richarlison was offside:

This is a split second before he strikes the ball:
View attachment 37328

and a split second after:
View attachment 37330
Personally, I think he looks offside in both frames.

So, at worst it's the right call for the wrong reason. I've even seen someone claiming "there was a throw in before it happened so it couldn't have been offside", which is just bizarre and shows they probably know it was offside.

Apart from the clear offside (lino flagging I think), the spin on the ball caused it to arc towards Rodri's arm anyway. Nothing he could do about it.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Apart from the clear offside (lino flagging I think), the spin on the ball caused it to arc towards Rodri's arm anyway. Nothing he could do about it.

….other than not put his arm out and lean into it, of course!

It wasn’t given. Untold gallons of piss was boiled. City win and got 3 very valuable points. We move on, expecting that to be the last VAR decision we will get for the rest of the season now that every media mouthpiece says “we got away with one!”

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

No...incorrect. Read it again. There was no offside in the build up to the handball, the offside occurred afterwards.

Incorrect, there may have been an offside in the build but no flag came and apparently it wasn't checked. There was an offside later in the move which was flagged.

 

[trevorriley]

first half didnt make good entertainment from the terraces, everton really battled with us and pressed, quicker to snatch the ball than we where. All made a first half of about 2 shits on target.

second half was better, we got the passes together and looked the most likely to score all the half.

dictated possesion, we had far more passes, we had more corners, we had more shots. But according to MOTD we got a stuffy given goal and ref was on our side with pen ( even though the whole game the ref was very pro Everton ) and everton deserved the game....... so full of shit.

 

[Manchester33]

I thought we were good value for the three points, but let's be honest - it was a definite handball by Rodri and if it had been the other way around we'd be fuming.

It's about time we got a handball decision in our favour though. The most recent ones I can remember were 2 shockers against Spurs and one against Liverpool.

Huge win...

 

[hammocity]

I thought we were good value for the three points, but let's be honest - it was a definite handball by Rodri and if it had been the other way around we'd be fuming.

It's about time we got a handball decision in our favour though. The most recent ones I can remember were 2 shockers against Spurs and one against Liverpool.

Huge win...

It was an accidental handball though, I think that’s the critique Kavanagh on VAR used. As @Inter Me Nan posted Kavanagh is a Rag fan so he’s applied sky blue thinking there, however he did give a West Ham equaliser a couple of weeks ago when the ball went in off Dawson’s arm, very similar area to Rodders.

 

[Manchester33]

It was an accidental handball though, I think that’s the critique Kavanagh on VAR used. As @Inter Me Nan posted Kavanagh is a Rag fan so he’s applied sky blue thinking there, however he did give a West Ham equaliser a couple of weeks ago when the ball went in off Dawson’s arm, very similar area to Rodders.

I don't know to be honest. I thought it looked like Rodri moved his arm out towards the ball. The only saving grace was that there were no Everton players around him, so it's hardly like it stopped them scoring or something.

My point is that we got away with one. On another day, with a different ref, they might have given that, and if the ref on Sat had given it, there's no way they'd overturn it!

But I'll also point out that there's no way we're favourably treated by refs. Compare us to Liverpool who get penalty after penalty for very little! It's the first time since Swansea in the FA cup that we've benefitted from a bad decision. We've probably had 20+ bad decisions against us in that time.

 

[mcfcphil]

Incorrect, there may have been an offside in the build but no flag came and apparently it wasn't checked. There was an offside later in the move which was flagged.

The offside would have been checked had the VAR decided it was handball.

There's no point wasting time checking for offside when the decision makes no difference.

It's a bit like Liverpool fans assuming we were guilty of the charges that CAS deemed to be time barred.

 

[blueparrot]

I thought we were good value for the three points, but let's be honest - it was a definite handball by Rodri and if it had been the other way around we'd be fuming.

It's about time we got a handball decision in our favour though. The most recent ones I can remember were 2 shockers against Spurs and one against Liverpool.

Huge win...

Unless you have a picture showing it hitting his arm and not the sleeve then nothing definite about it.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I think we would ALL like VAR to simply be fair and unbiased. In the absence of that, I’ll gladly take it working in our favor every now and then, because it rarely feels like ANY ref decision does.

View attachment 37473

This wasn’t even given as a foul, let alone a penalty and a red card!

That was pre VAR though.