Russian invasion of Ukraine

So you're ok with WW3 starting ?
If you think the US haven’t already had promises, then yes, I‘d call his bluff and let his own people deal with him.

While you watch others get destroyed in their own land, civilians, adult and children die, are you happy to stand bye and allow it to happen when, you can stand up and make them take notice?
 
If you think the US haven’t already had promises, then yes, I‘d call his bluff and let his own people deal with him.

While you watch others get destroyed in their own land, civilians, adult and children die, are you happy to stand bye and allow it to happen when, you can stand up and make them take notice?

Creating a scenario where world war 3 breaks out or multiple countries get involved, just leads to more civilians dying in other countries. Sadly Ukraine are on their own here, but we will do as much as we can without causing a broader conflict.
 
We are going to live this by a slow death so the question is, do they allow Ukraine urgent access into the EU, and us into NATO, to prevent what Russia is doing?

Should we not be in there now, can we really live with our conscience while people are dying, all while we use Ukrainians to protect ourselves?

Think we’re doing all that can be done currently, NATO won’t and shouldn’t get directly involved. If they do then the consequences are even more severe for Ukraine and everyone else too.
 
Think we’re doing all that can be done currently, NATO won’t and shouldn’t get directly involved. If they do then the consequences are even more severe for Ukraine and everyone else too.
This.
The minute another nation send troops this escilates to another level entirely.

At the moment the whole world is condemning putin and applying pressure but it would completely change if a more capable military force wades in to level up the playing field.
 
Think we’re doing all that can be done currently, NATO won’t and shouldn’t get directly involved. If they do then the consequences are even more severe for Ukraine and everyone else too.
Yeah, not to mention it seems like there's a sizable portion of the Russian army/general populace has no desire to fight Ukraine. I'd imagine they'd feel very differently if they were were 'attacked' by a western nation.
 
straw men to the left of me, straw men to the right of me etc etc
never suggested we should be going to war.
i dont want anyone to die, but dying they are
i dont think giving putin/russia land will bring peace and stop the dying. i think the russians will accept the peace but use proxies to carry on killing Ukrainians, while they regroup and re arm and then invade again. i think the only way to stop this would be to invite ukraine to join nato.

i think it is appeasement but happy to stop using the word if it gets in the way of having a real discussion
There's no way Putin will allow Ukraine to join NATO. He sees it in a very different light to how the west does. Every country that joins makes him and other old school Soviets feel more threatened and allows his rhetoric.

There is a very real risk that either NATO ends up at war with Russia or it allows a NATO country to be attacked and does nothing, at which point it's useless. We need to be finding solutions to this that everyone can claim as a victory, not risking escalation. We then find other ways to protect the sovereignty of Ukraine and other states which Russia can't claim are a security risk e.g. making them a member of the EU where the EU countries would need to protect them, but it's not seen as a military organisation.

Thankfully the likes of China are speaking in calming ways and are not currently siding with Russia, meaning they could still be key to brokering a deal. The alternative is too awful to consider.
 

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