Russian invasion of Ukraine

[inbetween]

If a no fly zone is put in place who will enforce it and what will happen if Russia fly jets over, will someone shoot it out of the sky, if so who and what do you think the consequences will be.

It would be extremely difficult to enforce because Russia now controls quite a lot of the country. It would of made sense 3 weeks ago before they invaded where the flights could of been based in Ukraine but now they'd have to fly flights out of a country like Poland to defend Kyiv but they're too far apart.

It's pretty certain that Russia have now moved anti-aircraft missiles into Ukraine as well so it's just far too dangerous.

 

[Bazzmand Show]

Russia's Interfax news agency says that the BBC has been blocked in the country.

Also blocked is the US-state funded Voice Of America, the Latvia-based Meduza, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty and Germany's state-broadcaster Deutsche Welle.

It comes after RT and Sputnik were effectively taken off air in Europe and the UK as part of EU sanctions.

To be honest, all of this is stupid now - I don't agree with taking any channels off the air regardless of how stupid they are.

It's a bad precedent, the information should flow.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Oh yeah, that's exactly how things have panned out.

Indeed they have. I'm sure you were in when travelling from here to Budapest would have been very different. We are not staring across the Rhine at each other and singing 99 red balloons anymore gramps ;-)

 

[Metal Biker]

To be honest, all of this is stupid now - I don't agree with taking any channels off the air regardless of how stupid they are.

It's a bad precedent, the information should flow.

Even if its wrong or misleading?

 

[AlgarveBlu]

I think the possible potential of Europe's largest nuclear plant being blown up is a reason to enforce a no fly zone

I am a bit fuzzy on the legal technicalities here of NATO's charter, but am I not right in saying that if nuclear fall out were to reach the nato states on Ukraine's western border that this could trigger article 5 as an attack on a member state?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Also sad and depressing is the thought that a deranged psychopath has so much power. He is soley responsible for killing thousands of people and inflicting misery and suffering on millions more. He could even destroy the world.

A fundamental flaw that Russia has created the circumstances for this to happen.

It is also pretty frightening that the US is exactly the same (in that the President has the power to press the nuke button at any time) and that they can at any time elect someone as bonkers as Trump!

 

[Rascal]

To think you used to call yourself el Presidente on here. You’ve got all the credibility of an alpaca at Crufts.

I will look that up on twitter the font of your knowledge.

Any suggestions on who to follow so I can get educated like you?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

If a no fly zone is put in place who will enforce it and what will happen if Russia fly jets over, will someone shoot it out of the sky, if so who and what do you think the consequences will be.

Lots of people understandably wanting a quick and simple solution to this.

Sadly, I think it's not like that. We have the world's geographically largest country run by a fascist dictator holding the world's largest nuclear arsenal and the capability and willingness to use lethal force at all levels from assassination to full scale invasion.

We cannot solve this. Every credible outcome is bad - even if Putin falls does anyone think an instant peaceful democracy in Russia which totally withdraws from Ukraine is likely?

All we can do is choose how to react, and no-one being honest has any certainty as to what the best thing to do is. I definitely don't.

 

[Chippy_boy]

But it was never Putin's "empire" to begin with mate. He didn't build it. He never held the keys to it so to speak. He came to power long after the Soviet Union collapsed and long after Ukraine, along with many other nations, voted for independence. Putin was a fucking nobody when the Soviet Union was still intact.

So that means he doesn't care? Many people in the UK would care about the break up on the UK, but not many of those people are in power. I think it's pretty clear that this is a big deal for Putin and the fact that he was not President when the USSR was at its peak, doesn't change that at all.

 

[Rascal]

When NATO expands, does it do it by attacking countries it wants to get in, sending over 150,000 troops, shelling residential areas and trying to assassinate their heads of state?

Or is it a defensive alliance that countries can request to join?

You’ve jumped the shark on this thread you crank.

I know you have a degree in twitter, but have you actually ever read a book?

 

[mancityvstoke]

Even if its wrong or misleading?

To be fair we have been mislead into wars many times before

 

[ashytheblue]

alot of people following this plane from Russia

Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24

View flight SU7030 from Moscow to Budapest on Flightradar24

www.flightradar24.com

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

I think the possible potential of Europe's largest nuclear plant being blown up is a reason to enforce a no fly zone

Well mate, it was a tongue in cheek dig at West Ham first and foremost, but more seriously we’ll have to disagree on this one.

A No fly zone is a rapid fire way to WW3, and if we did get into WW3, I think there’d quickly come a point when every single person would be cowering or dying at home wishing we hadn’t taken that path, or if alive and trying to survive, thinking it wasn’t worth it.

I want my kids and grandkids to grow up. Whatever risk you think exists right now, it’s minuscule compared to the risk of WW3.

In my humble opinion

 

[Metal Biker]

To be fair we have been mislead into wars many times before

Even more reason to stop the flow of disinformation, because we know what it leads to

 

[mancityvstoke]

I know you have a degree in twitter, but have you actually ever read a book?

I read the Secret Island once.....that made me an expert in survival should the worst happen. I'm off to that island in Platt Fields park.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Even more reason to stop the flow of disinformation, because we know what it leads to

I agree but I was aiming at our media and Govt INTELLIGENCE.....weapons of mass destruction etc

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I know you have a degree in twitter, but have you actually ever read a book?

A book I recently read on East Germany, which I heartily recommend as an check to your views on the Berlin Wall.

Stasiland - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[blueish swede]

What is a very sad and depressing thought for me - and a bit off topic perhaps - is how on earth did Putin get into such a state that he thinks that killing people is perfectly OK? What on earth did his parents ever teach him? How do monsters like this get made?

Of course sometimes, wars are unavoidable in the protection of our freedoms, but we should never be the aggressors. Killing in self-defence if someone with a knife breaks into your house, and tries to kill you and your kids? Well that is one thing.

But sitting in an ivory tower and ordering the executions for e.g. the Skripals or Litvinenko, or doubtless the countless dozens or hundreds in Russia we never get to hear about? And sending thousands of Russian soldiers to their deaths, in order to achieve some political objective?

How on earth does anyone ever become this evil??? It boggles

He reminds me of Idi Amin.

 

[blue b4 the moon]

alot of people following this plane from Russia

Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24

View flight SU7030 from Moscow to Budapest on Flightradar24

www.flightradar24.com

Who is thought to be on it?

 

[metalblue]

It is amazing that counter narratives are so easily dismissed.

Have you ever wondered why?

Respectfully Russ that was a lot of revisionist nonsense. Not because it’s a counter narrative but because it was nonsense. I’ll give you just one example he refers to the Soviet Union as a coalition of socialist states and the west an imperialist beast. Coalition? Such a cuddly description. Whereas the indisputable facts are there before you; the Russians suppressed nations with force after WW2 to create their empire - with fighting continuing into the 1960s before their brutality laid waste to peoples spirit whereas the west hasn’t made any imperial conquests whatsoever in that time, in fact any “expansion” has been achieved via voluntary membership. By all means dispute this, but if you can’t then you have to question the veracity of the rest of the article when this is just so obviously wrong.

I don’t doubt, and have said here before, that the US misjudged things after the Cold War and Putin rise to power is a product of that misjudgment. But this war is a product of Putin, and Putin alone. I’m sympathetic - like everyone would be - to Russia’s genuine concerns and I’m sympathetic to the way the west went about things - but none of those genuine concerns justify the invasion of another peaceful state and killing women and kids and laying waste to cities. No one need to make excuses for Putin, he is a spiteful little **** and he needs stopping - the sooner the better.

Anyroad at least you live in a free society where you can express an alternative narrative - that’s not a gift the Russians have anymore. But I’m sure that’s not because Putin knows this is an holy unjust war and he can only “justify” it by controlling the narrative.