Ferguson - Loud Mouthed Bully

johnnytapia said:
Great manager. Nowhere near the GPC though. As said before, Ferguson not only obliterates every English manager (Clough included) on top flight and European trophies, he also broke the Celtic /Rangers duopoly and that shows he was an absolutely top drawer manager. He’s a very very strong claim for greatest ever. Unless there is someone out there who has a comparable 2 team (or more haul).
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Cloughy won the title with two unfashionable, provincial clubs, where he had very little money to spend, until they started winning.

His first European Cup-winning side at Forest was made up of reject, like Larry Lloyd, Kenny Burns and Ian Bowyer.
 
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gordondaviesmoustache said:
Herbert Chapman.
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Chapman, 2 league titles with Huddersfield, 2 with Arsenal, 1 FA cup with Huddersfield and 1 with Arsenal; Ferguson 3 league titles with Aberdeen and 13 league titles with United. 4 Scottish cups with Aberdeen, 5 FA cups with United.
Chapman was an absolutely brilliant manager. But not even close to the GPC.
Ferguson is absolutely miles in front of anyone. Clough, Paisley, Pep, Ancelotti, etc. Let’s not be blindsided by partisanship.
 
Vienna_70 said:
Cloughy won the title with two unfashionable, provincial clubs, where he had very little money to spend, until they started winning.

His first European Cup-winning side at Forest was made up of reject, like Larry Lloyd, Kenny Burns and Ian Bowyer.
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And he broke the world goalkeeping transfer fee for Shilton and then broke the world transfer fee for the world’s first one million pound player, Francis. He was an absolute genius but it wasn’t all done on the cheap
 
johnnytapia said:
And he broke the world goalkeeping transfer fee for Shilton and then broke the world transfer fee for the world’s first one million pound player, Francis. He was an absolute genius but it wasn’t all done on the cheap
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He could only afford to buy those players because he (with Peter Taylor's help) had made Nottingham Forest a successful side, unlike the pisscan, who had a side, which cost £13.5 million, humiliated 5-1, by their (at that time) less-illustrious and much poorer, local rivals, despite at that stage, not having won any trophies at the swamp. A team that included five, who had come through the youth system, and was missing their newly-acquired star striker, and first-choice goalkeeper.

Additionally, Cloughie never indulged in the disgusting bullying tactics that purple nose did. He expected his players to behave impeccably. And they did, for the most part, unlike Ferguson's, who surrounded officials at every opportunity.

As much as it pains me to acknowledge it, taggart was a world-class manager, but I still think Clough was better.

However, as has been said many times about it being difficult to compare players from different eras, so it is with managers, and though their careers overlapped, they were fundamentally from different generations.
 
johnnytapia said:
Chapman, 2 league titles with Huddersfield, 2 with Arsenal, 1 FA cup with Huddersfield and 1 with Arsenal; Ferguson 3 league titles with Aberdeen and 13 league titles with United. 4 Scottish cups with Aberdeen, 5 FA cups with United.
Chapman was an absolutely brilliant manager. But not even close to the GPC.
Ferguson is absolutely miles in front of anyone. Clough, Paisley, Pep, Ancelotti, etc. Let’s not be blindsided by partisanship.
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Pound for Pound chapman was better at the age he died, his sides won 3 titles without him you could argue.
 
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johnnytapia said:
Great manager. Nowhere near the GPC though. As said before, Ferguson not only obliterates every English manager (Clough included) on top flight and European trophies, he also broke the Celtic /Rangers duopoly and that shows he was an absolutely top drawer manager. He’s a very very strong claim for greatest ever. Unless there is someone out there who has a comparable 2 team (or more haul).
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Clough won the league with Derby and Forest. He won the European Cup with Forest four years after becoming manager when they were a mid table 2nd division club. He won the European Cup as many times as Ferguson. I'd say his achievements are comparable
 
johnnytapia said:
Chapman, 2 league titles with Huddersfield, 2 with Arsenal, 1 FA cup with Huddersfield and 1 with Arsenal; Ferguson 3 league titles with Aberdeen and 13 league titles with United. 4 Scottish cups with Aberdeen, 5 FA cups with United.
Chapman was an absolutely brilliant manager. But not even close to the GPC.
Ferguson is absolutely miles in front of anyone. Clough, Paisley, Pep, Ancelotti, etc. Let’s not be blindsided by partisanship.
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I’m not. He was a brilliant manager. Great eye for a player. Highly manipulative and intelligent. So driven to succeed. Definitely one of the best.

Still think Chapman is worth a shout, given the era.

Like Taggart, he properly did it twice.
 
Stephen230 said:
Of all the theories and excuses that have been spoken over the last 24 hours about United’s woes, the one name that I haven’t heard mentioned is Ferguson’s.

He’s still on the payroll, I think I’ve read somewhere that he still has his own office and is a regular in the dressing room.

I personally don’t think United will ever begin to come out from under his shadow until someone has the bottle to tell him… Thanks for everything but now it’s time to fuck off and stop being a constant presence breathing down the neck of every new manager.

Hopefully it won’t happen any time soon. I’m actually surprised that Mourinho stood for it.
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There was mutual respect and admiration between them, thick as thieves.
 
It's increasingly conspicuous that he never says a bad word about the Glazers, why do people think that is?

One open letter from Ferguson and there'd be protests at the club big enough to actually force them out.


Is it wisdom from see the unintended consequences of going to war with Magnier? Are they paying him too well for his directorship? Those 99 questions still knocking around in a drawer somewhere? Or is he just too old and tired and wants to keep his seat?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I’m not sure that’s completely correct. After the takeover, he did acknowledge that the Derbies would take on greater importance. So, he probably saw us as a threat, which probably caused him to go when he did, but his arrogance meant he assumed that united would always be at the top to be challenged, and tbf to him, very few people could have (and did) predict the extent of their demise.

I think the success of their commercial operation, which dwarfed everyone else, meant that we were all blinded to the structural and personnel issues in the footballing side of the club. I think most of us assumed that their financial firepower would always enable them to buy their way out of trouble.

The fact they have fallen so far, despite that huge commercial advantage, shows just how much they have fucked things up. They are now struggling to attract ‘mercenaries’ in a way we never did when we hadn’t won a trophy for 30-odd years, which is actually astonishing. Good players simply don’t want to play for them, because they feel it will harm theur careers, which the clear evidence suggests it will.

Their fans love to talk about our ‘cheat mode’ but theirs doesn’t have appeared to worked out very well for them. Imagine having such an advantage over other clubs and still fucking it up? It takes a really special effort to achieve that.

By way of their own arrogance and vanity, they have completely fucked things up. Let’s hope we don’t make the same conceited, hubristic mistakes.
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As long as Khaldoon is chairman, we will not be complacent or hubristic.
 
melrose40yarder said:
Brian Clough was the greatest end off,what he did with Derby & Forest will never be equalled.How he never got the England job is a mystery.
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The blazers were scared that Clough would be too much for them to handle. One of them told him some years later that they were worried that he would want to take over everything.
 
The “lifetime” remark. What else was he going to say? Frankly? “Yes, they're going to overtake us and crush us into the dirt”? It was PR, at a time when media exposure of football and football clubs had grown exponentially. The plastics in Mumbai, Denver and Quito lapped it up.
Couldn't give a rat's arse.
And by the way, we weren't the only ones he was offensive to. He spread it around.
 
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