The Conservative Party

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

It was down against the fucking Ruble!

So was the dollar, to be fair. Of course, in an opposite position to ours, a strengthening Rouble actually hits the price Russia gets for its oil and gas. It’s a funny old world and no mistake..

 

[hampshireblue]

Ignore what? I didn't even see it - still haven't. I am not on here 24x7 you know, and funnily enough I am not "following" you either.

EDIT: I have just searched for your posts and still don't see any challenge nor any post requesting a reply. Your last reply to me was you making a statement, which requires no response.

Message

Ignore what? I didn't even see it - still haven't. I am not on here 24x7 you know, and funnily enough I am not "following" you either.

EDIT: I have just searched for your posts and still don't see any challenge nor any post requesting a reply. Your last reply to me was you making a statement, which requires no response.

Message #23128.

 

[dave_blue12]

Interesting take on the current clusterfuck we find ourselves in. Click and read the thread.

 

[Chippy_boy]

What makes you think that this is going to work?

Do you know more than the experts and lets face it the market that has tanked over this un costed budget?

Putting aside that a 2% drop is hardly "tanked", in fact it's not more than a normal daily swing as happens many, many times a year, I don't know more than experts, but I do know that there's historical examples of tax cuts turning economies around, as per Cowperthwaite's transforms of Hong Kong; Reagan's in the US.

 

[youngbob]

Still, at least Jimmy Combine didn't get in.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Message

Message #23128.

Thanks, read it now. What of it? It doesn't seem to seek a reply from me, let alone any challenge. I am likewise pissed off about many aspects of our tax system.

 

[dave_blue12]

Putting aside that a 2% drop is hardly "tanked", in fact it's not more than a normal daily swing as happens many, many times a year, I don't know more than experts, but I do know that there's historical examples of tax cuts turning economies around, as per Cowperthwaite's transforms of Hong Kong; Reagan's in the US.

The problem is that the significant tax cuts only effect those with very high incomes who are relatively small in number and plenty of which will simply stash their windfall away.

The more modest tax cuts awarded to the lower income tax payers who are larger in number and far more likely to spend any surplus will be more than eaten up by the increased bills everyone is facing..

Kwarteng's policy cannot therefore stimulate the economy.

 

[domalino]

Putting aside that a 2% drop is hardly "tanked", in fact it's not more than a normal daily swing as happens many, many times a year, I don't know more than experts, but I do know that there's historical examples of tax cuts turning economies around, as per Cowperthwaite's transforms of Hong Kong; Reagan's in the US.

Ronald Reagan's economic legacy was the US's largest ever national debt.

It wasn't his tax cuts that boosted the economy, it was the fact he ran the biggest national deficit in history.

It also saw the biggest growth in income inequality in US history, the number of people below the poverty line changed 0% and real wages dropped every single year.

I don't think anyone has been taught about Reaganomics being a wonderful thing since the late 1990's which is a problem for us because that's when most Tory MP's did their PPE.

 

[Chippy_boy]

What you don't seem to understand is that modern capitalism is not that espoused by Adam Smith and his invisible hand.
Modern capitalism is monopoly capitalism where increasingly large corporations dominate the market and set the rules of the game by influencing government policy.
It's also increasingly a rentier rather than a productive form of capitalism so a completely different situation to that which HK found itself in many years ago.

So the sceptics can ignore it having been a huge success then. Well how convenient.

 

[A57 the snake]

Truss is the Tories Corbyn. unelectable .

Agreed.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The problem is that the significant tax cuts only effect those with very high incomes who are relatively small in number and plenty of which will simply stash their windfall away.

The more modest tax cuts awarded to the lower income tax payers who are larger in number and far more likely to spend any surplus will be more than eaten up by the increased bills everyone is facing..

Kwarteng's policy cannot therefore stimulate the economy.

I'm tempted to agree with that. As I said in a previous post, I would rather they had targeted the lowest paid and those on income support.

However I am not so stupid as to think the the 45% to 40% cut was to rewards their chums, as some (all) of the bitter lefties seem to think. (Many "chums" are so loaded as to not notice anyway).

Not being part of government, I cannot say what the intention was, but I imagine it is to make the UK a more appealing place for inwards investment. Company directors are more likely to want to be based where tax rates are lower. So I think it's more to do with that (ditto the corporation tax change) than imagining all the money will naturally be spent at Waitrose.

There's also the issue that very rich people are more likely to just stump up and pay their 40%, rather than arrange their finances in complex ways in order to avoid paying it at all... which is what happens when rates go too high.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

 

[robbieh]

So the sceptics can ignore it having been a huge success then. Well how convenient.

Not denying it was a success, but it was a different world, and a different capitalism then.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

There's also the issue that very rich people are more likely to just stump up and pay their 40%, rather than arrange their finances in complex ways in order to avoid paying it at all... which is what happens when rates go too high.

This is a truly pathetic piece of reasoning that right wingers like to wheel out. The idea that cutting taxes means the mega rich will be less liklely to engage in tax avoidance/evasion is just insulting to everyone else.

 

[Chippy_boy]

This is a truly pathetic piece of reasoning that right wingers like to wheel out. The idea that cutting taxes means the mega rich will be less liklely to engage in tax avoidance/evasion is just insulting to everyone else.

Insulting to those too lazy to look up the historical evidence, clearly.

And I am not talking about the "brain drain" the country experienced under Labour when masses of people fucked off rather than pay the ludicrous tax rates. The cut from 50p to 45p didn't reduce the overall tax take. In fact in raw figures, it went up by about £8bn (though this was largely (circa +£6bn) because people waited to get paid the later tax year at the lower rate.) But even accounting for that, the actual tax revenue did not actually fall, so clearly more people paid it.

 

[carlosthejackal]

Of course it is , financial markets predicting interest rates at 6% by March next year .

 

[Chippy_boy]

View attachment 56650
Of course it is , financial markets predicting interest rates at 6% by March next year .

I don't claim to know more than experts, but I would bet my mortgage that interest rates will be nowhere near 6% by then.

But incidentally they were saying well before any hint of Friday's tax cut that rates would go to 6% or 7%,

 

[Scottyboi]

The party that always looks after the economy........ fucking shambles.

 

[Scottyboi]

View attachment 56650
Of course it is , financial markets predicting interest rates at 6% by March next year .

State of the headline about Meghan too, really have to be a sad **** to fall for anything the mail pushes.

 

[Mike D]

Putting aside that a 2% drop is hardly "tanked", in fact it's not more than a normal daily swing as happens many, many times a year, I don't know more than experts, but I do know that there's historical examples of tax cuts turning economies around, as per Cowperthwaite's transforms of Hong Kong; Reagan's in the US.

Hardly tanked but
Not only was Friday the third-worst day for sterling since Black Monday in 1992, it was the 41st worst day in the 47,000 trading days since 1862.

Why you are comparing Reagan's US? Interest rates were 19% in the US and their economy was nothing like the UK is right now. There is no north sea oil to plunder or public assets to flog off. So you're comparison is irrelevant.