Keir Starmer

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Standing ovation after every sentence you mean

Almost like after a dictator - R Peston, 2022.

 

[mat]

Standing ovation after every sentence you mean

I didn't get to see the full speech. Got as far as the working class determination allegory before having to go to work.

Will rewatch it when I get home.

If it's what the majority want he will get elected as PM. I can't argue with democracy.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I didn't get to see the full speech. Got as far as the working class determination allegory before having to go to work.

Will rewatch it when I get home.

If it's what the majority want he will get elected as PM. I can't argue with democracy.

He did good today, very well delivered speech

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

He did good today, very well delivered speech

Didn’t see all of it, only a few snippets. Looked like the party were united and now it will be interesting to see who we’re not happy with it.

 

[Vic]

Impossible. Blair was a total embarrassment. Remember when he wore the leather jacket Bush gave him? Cringeworthy of the very highest order. Nobody could get up the arse of the Americans as far as he did. Nobody.

So, right or wrong, Blair went to war against a torturing megalomaniac. Surely better than supporting a torturing megalomaniac.

 

[Vic]

Not heard his speech but read a sumary, quoted bliar a few times, I expect it is centrist blurge that will do for most, but equality between the richest and poorest will change only slightly.

What I need to hear and I hope he spoke about it is when will I be able to afford to travel across this country affordably, and reliably, will my wage be at levels to cover my basic needs like bills, food, clothing, transport etc, if I need to challenge my working conditions will I be able to. Will our health system, education and public services be kept away from private firms meddling, will we have a foreign policy that doesn't pander to cunts just to ensure trade.

Yes. Vote Labour.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I am starting to think people enjoy being dry bum fucked than trying the alternative.......if after 12 years this version of the Tories get back in every right minded person should leave the UK - spend a few months abroad - earn a living and let the no forriners spend the money at home rather than support people overseas fuck BLM people who watch GBNews just fucking expire in their own pollutant because they deserve no better. If you cannot see why these Tories need to be out after 12 years then yo deserve to dine on past its expiry date food from a foodbank and be denied sick pay by your free market capitalist employer on your zero hours contract

TORIES OUT

 

[Vic]

Wrong. I listened to Starmer because I was hoping he would give hope and inspiration.

Beth Rigsby I think has asked the question that matters; "are Labour doing well because the Tories have messed up"? Yes, they have fucked up beyond the point of no return... still Labour do not do it for me?

Bizarre. Tories a total disaster, beyond the point of return, but no-one could be better.

Two WUMs at work it seems.

 

[El_george]

I still feel sick looking at Rupa Huq comments on Kwasi. Utterly sickening racism.

Weird/strange interview tonight between Kirsty Walk and Shadow Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson who although asked about it several times kept saying it was 'wrong', but wouldn't use the word 'Racism'. Why not just say it?

Especially as she's supposed to be the Shadow Education Secretary!

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Weird/strange interview tonight between Kirsty Walk and Shadow Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson who although asked about it several times kept saying it was 'wrong', but wouldn't use the word 'Racism'. Why not just say it?

Especially as she's supposed to be the Shadow Education Secretary!

Probably says more about your mindset than hers.

 

[urban genie]

Weird/strange interview tonight between Kirsty Walk and Shadow Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson who although asked about it several times kept saying it was 'wrong', but wouldn't use the word 'Racism'. Why not just say it?

Especially as she's supposed to be the Shadow Education Secretary!

Shes the shadow education secretary, as you say so a good journalist would ask her about abours plans on education, not a gotcha question on an issue already dealt with by the party disciplinary people.

And if she was asked several times then that is the poor level of political journalism in this country and why we have had 12 years of a shitshow.

I care about that on party levels she was called out by the party for a racist remark and the party removed the whip, job done, for each shadow minister interviewed I want to know the policies of their brief not personal opinions

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

I am starting to think people enjoy being dry bum fucked than trying the alternative.......if after 12 years this version of the Tories get back in every right minded person should leave the UK - spend a few months abroad - earn a living and let the no forriners spend the money at home rather than support people overseas fuck BLM people who watch GBNews just fucking expire in their own pollutant because they deserve no better. If you cannot see why these Tories need to be out after 12 years then yo deserve to dine on past its expiry date food from a foodbank and be denied sick pay by your free market capitalist employer on your zero hours contract

TORIES OUT

Sometimes, in your mind, you have to forgive people for what their opinions are. During times like this people can get defensive, delusional, angry, all sorts of emotions can takeover. Just imagine that you were certain of Brexit benefits, Tories looking after your money and general welfare, them being everything that you strive to be?

Then, the rug is pulled in a very short space of time where you are now looking at a massive shift from your cosy life. One day you are puffing your chest out on your drive, the next having the stuffing knocked out of you when you realise your lifestyle has changed so much that you maybe looking to lose your house.

There should be no gloating going on at this time, life sees injustice everywhere. Some today, many tomorrow, it could well be you, or I, in the future.

 

[Don Karleone]

The third part of the Labour files.

 

[meltonblue]

Not heard his speech but read a sumary, quoted bliar a few times, I expect it is centrist blurge that will do for most, but equality between the richest and poorest will change only slightly.

What I need to hear and I hope he spoke about it is when will I be able to afford to travel across this country affordably, and reliably, will my wage be at levels to cover my basic needs like bills, food, clothing, transport etc, if I need to challenge my working conditions will I be able to. Will our health system, educationxand public services be kept away from private firms medling, will we have a foriegn policy that doean't pander to cunts just to ensure trade.

Don’t think it was overly centrist. Saw an interview afterwards with McDonnell where he said the left had won the battle of the policies and I think he had a point.

Having said that, I do think a lot of what McDonnell and Corbyn wanted to do at the time was pretty centrist overall, which is partly why the actual policies always got high approval ratings.

 

[PPT]

So, right or wrong, Blair went to war against a torturing megalomaniac. Surely better than supporting a torturing megalomaniac.


View attachment 56763

If that’s the best you can do in the defence of Tony Blair then shame on you.

 

[The perfect fumble]

The logic of that argument never made sense to me. "Losing" millions of votes was quoted so often by supporters of Jeremy Corbyn, but I'm amazed it's still used when Jeremy "lost" 2.6 million votes in just two years (I don't believe Corbyn "lost" the votes any more than Blair did).

Labour had a poll lead from the day he took over in 1994, until well after his final election victory in 2005 (apart from just a couple of weeks in 2000 when there were fuel protests, but even then he was back with double digit leads weeks later).

I'd suggest it's just as important to look at the Tory vote, which was decimated during that time. In 2017 Theresa May got 5 million more votes than Michael Howard did when Blair won his third election. The reason being that under Blair the elections weren't particularly hard fought - turnout was low because the government was pretty popular, and he was expected to win.

I know his legacy is tainted by Iraq (despite it being a popular decision at the time, and for some time after), and I'm not much of a fan of him as an individual, but I don't think any other leader of a political party post Labour's 1945 administration could come close to the list of domestic achievements that Blair had.

That list of New Labour achievements is pulled out regularly, but can any of the last four PMs even put together anything resembling a list between the lot of them?

The argument makes sense against the counter factual claim of Blair's popularity. Yes, he won two elections while in office and in a first past the post system that's all that matters, but in the face of very weak opposition he lost millions of voters and finally, the crushing blow, he lost his party.

As for Blair's achievements, if you were around at the time you benefited from them, but very few have survived austerity because they were not rooted in societal change, so the Tories could dismantle them very quickly.

I guess I'm older than you, but I get the impression more survives today from Harold Wilson's time in office than Blair's.

If the Northern Ireland agreement folds they'll be little left of Blair's achievements, other than a fading memory.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Shes the shadow education secretary, as you say so a good journalist would ask her about abours plans on education, not a gotcha question on an issue already dealt with by the party disciplinary people.

And if she was asked several times then that is the poor level of political journalism in this country and why we have had 12 years of a shitshow.

I care about that on party levels she was called out by the party for a racist remark and the party removed the whip, job done, for each shadow minister interviewed I want to know the policies of their brief not personal opinions

Its the only story in town for Nick " I'm not a Tory honestly" Ferrari on LBC today - strangely he isn't mentioning the state of the economy nor the reports that Truss and Kwarteng had a meeting that "descended into a shouting match" - he mustn't get SKY News fed into his studio

 

[Vic]

If that’s the best you can do in the defence of Tony Blair then shame on you.

You were complaining that he wore a jacket.

 

[Postman Pep]

That's more like it ...... mind you a few cynics round the office have mentioned affiliation fees.

 

[bluenova]

The argument makes sense against the counter factual claim of Blair's popularity. Yes, he won two elections while in office and in a first past the post system that's all that matters, but in the face of very weak opposition he lost millions of voters and finally, the crushing blow, he lost his party.

As for Blair's achievements, if you were around at the time you benefited from them, but very few have survived austerity because they were not rooted in societal change, so the Tories could dismantle them very quickly.

I guess I'm older than you, but I get the impression more survives today from Harold Wilson's time in office than Blair's.

If the Northern Ireland agreement folds they'll be little left of Blair's achievements, other than a fading memory.

It's a bit easy to suggest that the opposition was weak. Do you really think it was an aberration in the last forty years and the Tories were only poor when Blair was in power? John Major won more votes than any other PM in history in the election before 1997, and William Hague and Michael Howard weren't noticeably poorer than Cameron, Johnson, May or Truss.

"Not rooted in societal change" seems to be an easy way of dismissing without actually making an argument. Of course austerity reversed many of Labour's achievements, but plenty sustained. You can argue details, but I don't see the Tories dismantling the minimum wage (instead they tried to rebrand it as their own). It's taken 12 years, and a genuinely crazy chancellor, for the idea of automatic holiday entitlement to be challenged and I'd be pretty shocked if that went.

Austerity couldn't knock down schools built under Labour, and while it hacks away at budgets, staffing levels at schools are hugely different to when I attended. Apart from the class teachers, our entire primary had one part-time assistant to cover the whole school - now my son's school has multiple people in his class, help for kids with special needs, specialist sports teachers, cover for the class teacher to prepare work and much more.

While there are many issues with self-employment and zero-hours contracts, you won't get many Tories arguing about "natural levels of unemployment" anymore, or policies which put people out of jobs in order to meet some abstract target elsewhere in the economy.

We still have free nursey places, and no sign that's going anywhere, with the scheme being expanded under the Tories.

The Scottish and Welsh assemblies still appear to be in place.

The changes made to pensions and benefits for over-65s have bedded into society so well that we now have arguments over whether pensioners are too well off!

Are the Tories likely to bring back section 28 or withdraw civil partnerships?

I could go on, and I'm sure you can argue details, but a lot of the changes under New Labour weren't just positive at the time, but have also endured.