The Conservative Party

[Brewster's millions]

Thanks. It seems she tried to cover herself by using the word "typical" in her numerous interviews this morning but that's misleading as fuck as most "typical" households will pay more than £2500. The usage figures OFGEM use to come up with that £2500 price cap figure aren't worth a fucking wank for any family with one or more kids. I'm sure Truss knows this but she's basically gaslighting huge swathes of the population into believing they'll pay no more than £2500.

I suspect the OFGEM usage number is the mean and the modal figure will be higher. But to say that no household will pay more than 2.5k is wrong which ever way you look at it.

Again, it’s a poor understanding of her brief and a failure to convey the facts. Given how hugely expensive the energy price cap will be for the government, you would think that Truss would want to avoid people tripping her up on her numbers and muddying the argument, so as to derive the maximum political benefit. But even here she fails. A complete lost cause.

 

[Vic]

Labour's mess inherited, public idiotically voting for Brexit, COVID, war in Ukraine amd 15x gas energy price crisis* Yep these things have sure taken their toll.

I suppose in your head, none of this counts.

(And yes the wholesale price has gone up 1,500% in the past year or so - I didn't believe it either)

Philp yesterday going on about debt ratio to GDP was second lowest in the world, then in the same breath talking about the crash under Labour. Was he talking about debt to GDP during election campaigns in 2015 and 2017 or was he talking about Labour's "money trees"?

Oh no, wait, that was you.... (Sept 2019)

And where will the money come from to buy the shares off the shareholders in those companies? The utility companies have market capitalizations of billions of pounds *each*.

Where will Labour get these billions from?

That muppett McDonnell says he'll pay for electricity nationalisation by issuing government backed bonds to the shareholders in lieu of their shares. Well that's great isn't it, magic money from the money tree. No, it's more debt and more debt interest and more pressure to increase taxes. And where will the money come from to buy back these bonds? More debt or money printing, both of which leading to rising inflation.

Tick, tock, tick, tock. The "ruin the UK economy" clock ticks loudly in the background.

 

[Vic]

It’s truly horrifying listening to this. I still for the life of me can’t comprehend that this imbecile is our PM.

She’s been locked away for two days practicing all of this, her advisors no doubt doing their absolute best to bring her spiel up to a minimum standard that wouldn’t prove utterly embarrassing. But once she gets past the prepared glibness, she collapses like a sack of shit and runs out of ideas against a local radio presenter.

The classic giveaway is the redundant references to the Bank of England being independent and “setting interest rates”, simply parroting what little knowledge she possesses, rather what’s relevant. You can just imagine her being handed a few simple facts condensed onto the back of a post it note, with any attempts to absorb anything more meaningful proving well beyond her.

She could have referenced the temporary nature of the BoE’s actions, the success in bringing gilt yields down, the medium term strategy that will be laid out for the public finances. Moreover, it was important to make a commitment to fiscal prudence with the markets listening intently. But the best she can come up is this. I despair.

If the Tories keep her in power for more than a few weeks, it will be one of the biggest acts of political self-harm on record (even bigger than electing her in the first place, that is).

If it was only political self-harm that would be great. It's the national harm that's the problem.

 

[oldius]

Labour's mess inherited, public idiotically voting for Brexit, COVID, war in Ukraine amd 15x gas energy price crisis* Yep these things have sure taken their toll.

I suppose in your head, none of this counts.

(And yes the wholesale price has gone up 1,500% in the past year or so - I didn't believe it either)

I am sure that there are many factors that can be used to help to explain the mess that we are in.

At the time that David Cameron came in to power, the national debt was 1 trillion. Before the pandemic, it had doubled, and it now stands at 2.365tn.

There has been, during the last twelve years, a surge in homelessness (up 159%).

We currently have record waiting lists in the NHS. 3,000 food banks have arisen and poverty has reached, in some cases, record levels. Life expectancy fell for the first recorded time under this government.

Schools and the health service have appalling levels of staff retention and cannot recruit.

We are known as the global leaders in the facilitation of international tax avoidance, while telling the electorate that essential services cannot be funded. There is now an estimated £21 tn in the British Territories and a recent report said that 'the UK has done more to damage international tax policy that any other nation.' Jacob Rees-Mogg's business is Cayman Islands registered, and Nadhim Zahawi is currently under investigation for his family's use of tax havens - the government is deeply conflicted here.

We have the worst performing currency globally in 2022, among the G10.
Forecasted growth is the worst in the G20, following a decade of slow growth in the previous 10 years.

We have the lowest state pension in the developed world.

I think most realise that Brexit has had a significant effect but, unfortunately, it was members of the Conservative Party that were some of its chief supporters. Jacob Rees-Mogg, for example, informed the electorate that concerns about Brexit were nonsense and could be dismissed as Project Fear. He told investors in one of his Somerset House funds that the economic future, post Brexit, was questionable, so the fund they were investing in would be moved to Dublin. Somebody else has said that it would never have happened with a different government. Naturally, papers like the Daily Mail were big drivers of it, from their tax haven in Bermuda.

We need huge change. I don't know why you feel that I do not consider the points you raise but we need both sides of the argument - neither is entirely wrong, IMO, and personal responsibility should be a tenet of a thriving society; we can also have fairness, integrity and morality too.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

The use of the word **** is increasing exponentially in this thread.

Always thought the British overuse of the word actually cheapens what a real **** is.
Carry on though. Can’t argue with any of its use in here.

 

[mancityvstoke]

I suspect the OFGEM usage number is the mean and the modal figure will be higher. But to say that no household will pay more than 2.5k is wrong which ever way you look at it.

Again, it’s a poor understanding of her brief and a failure to convey the facts. Given how hugely expensive the energy price cap will be for the government, you would think that Truss would want to avoid people tripping her up on her numbers and muddying the argument, so as to derive the maximum political benefit. But even here she fails. A complete lost cause.

I'll be paying around £3,200

 

[bobmcfc]

Always thought the British overuse of the word actually cheapens what a real **** is.
Carry on though. Can’t argue with any of its use in here.

Aren't Cunts actually warm and inviting ? Lizz Truss is more like an arsehole, Puckered, dry and full of shit.

But I like using the C word much better because its a bold word that really emphasises the contempt held for her

 

[mancityvstoke]

Aren't Cunts actually warm and inviting ? Lizz Truss is more like an arsehole, Puckered, dry and full of shit.

But I like using the C word much better because its a bold word that really emphasises the contempt held for her

She's definitely a ****

 

[domalino]

Philp yesterday going on about debt ratio to GDP was second lowest in the world, then in the same breath talking about the crash under Labour. Was he talking about debt to GDP during election campaigns in 2015 and 2017 or was he talking about Labour's "money trees"?

Oh no, wait, that was you.... (Sept 2019)

And where will the money come from to buy the shares off the shareholders in those companies? The utility companies have market capitalizations of billions of pounds *each*.

Where will Labour get these billions from?

That muppett McDonnell says he'll pay for electricity nationalisation by issuing government backed bonds to the shareholders in lieu of their shares. Well that's great isn't it, magic money from the money tree. No, it's more debt and more debt interest and more pressure to increase taxes. And where will the money come from to buy back these bonds? More debt or money printing, both of which leading to rising inflation.

Tick, tock, tick, tock. The "ruin the UK economy" clock ticks loudly in the background.

I think we have reached the point where we need to stop engaging with this cretin.

He's not arguing in good faith, I'm pretty sure he's a WUM, if you respond with facts to disprove his arguments he just ignores the comment and starts espousing the disproven crap he comes out with to someone else.

No one actually believes the lines he's pumping out.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Philp yesterday going on about debt ratio to GDP was second lowest in the world, then in the same breath talking about the crash under Labour. Was he talking about debt to GDP during election campaigns in 2015 and 2017 or was he talking about Labour's "money trees"?

Oh no, wait, that was you.... (Sept 2019)

And where will the money come from to buy the shares off the shareholders in those companies? The utility companies have market capitalizations of billions of pounds *each*.

Where will Labour get these billions from?

That muppett McDonnell says he'll pay for electricity nationalisation by issuing government backed bonds to the shareholders in lieu of their shares. Well that's great isn't it, magic money from the money tree. No, it's more debt and more debt interest and more pressure to increase taxes. And where will the money come from to buy back these bonds? More debt or money printing, both of which leading to rising inflation.

Tick, tock, tick, tock. The "ruin the UK economy" clock ticks loudly in the background.

To be fair, he almost got it exactly right. Just the Labour bit he got wrong….

 

[domalino]

Lets be 100% clear. This policy has failed already.

The plan was reduce tax to encourage investment and growth and hope that the bigger economy will more than offset the lower tax rates. This would take several years to come through. (This bit is the gamble).

What has happened is the £ has crashed as a result of lack of market confidence. The markets think that not enough tax will be raised and therefore government finances will deteriorate.

The key bit is this - the reduction in the value of the £ means all our imports cost more, including oil and gas (wile we are a net producer the economic benefit is owned by private companies and they sell to all of us based on the $ value). So the measure is inflationary. Liz truss was told this during her campaign and rejected the idea. She has been proven wrong already.

And going back to the initial gamble - there is practically zero chance that any growth generated will offset the now higher costs that we as a nation will face. Prosperity will be hit by the inflationary pressure and growth will be negatively impacted. It was a gamble assuming markets remained steady - given the adverse movements it looks like a slam dunk fail.

Let's also be clear that this gamble wasn't like betting on City to beat United on the weekend.

It wasn't even like tossing a coin.

The reason Rishi Sunak and others are looking so smart right now for predicting exactly what would happen is because loads of people knew this would happen when you increased borrowing and cut tax revenue.

 

[Gabriel]

 

[HelloCity]

Labour's mess inherited, public idiotically voting for Brexit, COVID, war in Ukraine amd 15x gas energy price crisis* Yep these things have sure taken their toll.

I suppose in your head, none of this counts.

(And yes the wholesale price has gone up 1,500% in the past year or so - I didn't believe it either)

Haha.

Nothing worse than a working class bloke who thinks he benefits from a Tory government. They’re literally working against you no matter who their leader is and they wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire.

Love how absolutely nothing is the Tories fault and yet they apparently also ‘inherited Labour’s mess’. I can only presume you’re talking about the 2008 financial crises which was actually a world wide issue. The Tories simply weaponised the circumstances in their election campaign to point out ‘look what Labour have done’. George Osbourne years later actually said he privately thought Labour handled it quite well.

Not only that but the NHS had its highest ever approval rating during that Labour run, there was less homelessness & poverty, and our Greater Manchester high streets didn’t look like something out of a post apocalypse movie. You know, the kind of things we should all be wanting from our country?

 

[domalino]

Love how absolutely nothing is the Tories fault and yet they apparently also ‘inherited Labour’s mess’. I can only presume you’re talking about the 2008 financial crises which was actually a world wide issue. The Tories simply weaponised the circumstances in their election campaign to point out ‘look what Labour have done’. George Osbourne years later actually said he privately thought Labour handled it quite well.

For all his many faults, Gordon Brown's reaction to the 2008 crisis was actually brilliant. Britain's recovery was the best of developed nations in the first 2 years and then something happened in 2010 that made us embark on a completely different, now disproved, fiscal policy which slammed the brakes on recovery and left Britain trailing behind everyone else.

What was it again? Oh yeah. The Tories came into power.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

maybe she really believes that in time her policy and tax cuts will work out, but there's nothing she can really say or do to quell the storm that's happening now

She doesn’t come across like she understands how, herself though.
She has a few phrases rehearsed and no substance to stray passed that.
You can almost see the strings being pulled to move her.

 

[Vic]

at least that would explain the long silences, but it's not because of that, it's because she's thick as fuck. she needs to be removed from office now.

Not necessarily. Lots of intelligent people think before answering a question - Archbishop Rowan Williams was one, but the Parliamentarian with that reputation was Sir Keith Joseph (a minister who'd sit with his feet on the dispatch box before TV stopped that); a local radio presenter told me Joseph had done a recorded radio interview and paused for ten seconds to answer a question - the presenter said he'd wanted to broadcast it as recorded but the producer said he'd have to cut it as they didn't want "dead air".

 

[Bodicoteblue]

Haha.

Nothing worse than a working class bloke who thinks he benefits from a Tory government. They’re literally working against you no matter who their leader is and they wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire.

Love how absolutely nothing is the Tories fault and yet they apparently also ‘inherited Labour’s mess’. I can only presume you’re talking about the 2008 financial crises which was actually a world wide issue. The Tories simply weaponised the circumstances in their election campaign to point out ‘look what Labour have done’. George Osbourne years later actually said he privately thought Labour handled it quite well.

Not only that but the NHS had its highest ever approval rating during that Labour run, there was less homelessness & poverty, and our Greater Manchester high streets didn’t look like something out of a post apocalypse movie. You know, the kind of things we should all be wanting from our country?

They’re still trying to weaponise labour‘s resurgence as the cause of the spectacular tanking of the pound.
And mess inheriting is soon to take on previously unknown levels.

 

[bluejon]

Not necessarily. Lots of intelligent people think before answering a question - Archbishop Rowan Williams was one, but the Parliamentarian with that reputation was Sir Keith Joseph (a minister who'd sit with his feet on the dispatch box before TV stopped that); a local radio presenter told me Joseph had done a recorded radio interview and paused for ten seconds to answer a question - the presenter said he'd wanted to broadcast it as recorded but the producer said he'd have to cut it as they didn't want "dead air".

Agree but the clue is whether or not the pause is followed by something that has been thought through properly before the gob opens and words pour out.

 

[HelloCity]

For all his many faults, Gordon Brown's reaction to the 2008 crisis was actually brilliant. Britain's recovery was the best of developed nations in the first 2 years and then something happened in 2010 that made us embark on a completely different, now disproved, fiscal policy which slammed the brakes on recovery and left Britain trailing behind everyone else.

What was it again? Oh yeah. The Tories came into power.

It has kind of been lost in time because the winner’s write history and all that. So many people genuinely think Labour just mismanaged the books in our country and we went into meltdown because of it but this was just the opposition/Tory narrative to win back voters.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

Agree but the clue is whether or not the pause is followed by something that has been thought through properly before the gob opened and words poured out.

Correct….the thoughtful, serene silence as she formulates a cogent, rational, perhaps even witty response before opening her mouth and saying ‘Putin’