Liz Truss

nottsco2-0 said:
I think I've watched the clip over her looking absolutely lost and silent 20 times. I vary from thinking it's fucking hilarious to being absolutely fucking furious that someone so absolutely useless is our Prime Minister. She's so singularly inept and I can't see even one redeeming feature. I'm baffled.

Slytherin house will no doubt concoct a way of manipulating the narrative to dodge the sorely needed general election.
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No chance of a GE mate, she was asked to call one at pm's questions in parliament.

Her answer was "the last thing we need is a general election"

The "we" is no doubt the parliamentary tory party, and not the country as a whole.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Mate, if you wanted to get there I wouldn't start from here.

In 2010 Gordon Brown had to hang about in No 10 while the Tories and Lib Dems cobbled together a coalition that could command a parliamentary majority, once that was achieved Brown went to the Palace to say bye bye, then Cameron went to the Palace to say hello and blah, blah, blah.

So Truss can't go to see the monarch and nominate her mate Sir Tufton Bufton on a whim, even dim witted Charlie might ask if Tufton could command a parliamentary majority and without the backing of the Conservative Parliamentary Party the answer would be no. So our gormless monarch would tell our gormless PM to bugger off and come back when there's someone available who can command such a majority, that's what constitutional monarchs do.

Bottom line, if Truss can't command a parliamentary majority she must resign, if she refuses, she will be ousted in Parliament in a vote of no confidence.
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The convention seems to have transmogrified to appointing whoever the majority party nominates (with or without the connivance of the departing PM). It still means the monarch could theoretically be faced with a situation where Truss resigns and suggests Coffey for PM (or Tufton Bufton) but the 1922 committee lets it be known (usual channels?) that someone relatively sensible would actually command a majority. It's not that obvious a choice - but it is still a choice that the monarch would make.

Brown hung around trying to get LibDem support for a coalition, but their price was his resignation. Daft now by the LibDems in retrospect, but that's history.

Bottom line is that under our non-constitution (and repeal of the Fixed Term Parliament Act) it is still only a convention that the PM would resign (or ask for dissolution) after losing a no-confidence vote. And the bottom bottom line is that she would win a vote of no-confidence. (turkeys / Christmas). It is entirely conceivable that the monarch asks her to resign.

Tories - wrecking the concept of a constitutional monarchy...
 
Vic said:
The convention seems to have transmogrified to appointing whoever the majority party nominates (with or without the connivance of the departing PM). It still means the monarch could theoretically be faced with a situation where Truss resigns and suggests Coffey for PM (or Tufton Bufton) but the 1922 committee lets it be known (usual channels?) that someone relatively sensible would actually command a majority. It's not that obvious a choice - but it is still a choice that the monarch would make.

Brown hung around trying to get LibDem support for a coalition, but their price was his resignation. Daft now by the LibDems in retrospect, but that's history.

Bottom line is that under our non-constitution (and repeal of the Fixed Term Parliament Act) it is still only a convention that the PM would resign (or ask for dissolution) after losing a no-confidence vote. And the bottom bottom line is that she would win a vote of no-confidence. (turkeys / Christmas). It is entirely conceivable that the monarch asks her to resign.

Tories - wrecking the concept of a constitutional monarchy...
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We're going round in circles.

Things have moved on since the early 1960s.

There are procedures in place now, Truss does not have it in her power to nominate her successor, so your scenario does not hold up.

Brown did not hang on hoping the Lib Dems would see sense, it was established early on that the Lib Dems weren't interested in a Lib/Lab whatever. He hung about while the Tories and Lib Dems haggled over cabinets positions, policy and whatnot, in fact if you read Alistair Campbell's account of that time Brown was forever on the blower telling them to get a move on.

MPs return to their constituencies this weekend, expect cabinet resignations early next week, back bench letters piling up at the 1922 and then the men in grey suits will come calling, but before they do there'll be a quiet coup, the Liz Truss libertarian fruitcakes will be told to shut the fuck up and they'll find a nice Tory corporatist and maybe a one nation Tory side kick to face up the post Truss government.

Remember the majority of the Conservative Parliamentary Party wanted Sunak, it was only the shire Tory fruitcakes that tipped it in Truss's favour.

In such a situation Truss will resign because if she doesn't it'll go to a vote of no confidence in Parliament and no PM wants that humiliation.
 
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hilts said:
National average wages are somewhat skewed by the really high wage workers. 33k is neither a poor wage nor a great one. It very much falls into the average bracket.
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Given the hours they work, the intense trauma they witness and the insane stress they go through, I'd say it's a poor wage. They absolutely should be on way more given the importance of their roles. I earned that wage just doing social media nonsense in a cushy office dicking about online all day for a brand. Absolutely stress free really. Feel embarrassed to be on the same as a nurse.
 
twosips said:
Given the hours they work, the intense trauma they witness and the insane stress they go through, I'd say it's a poor wage. They absolutely should be on way more given the importance of their roles. I earned that wage just doing social media nonsense in a cushy office dicking about online all day for a brand. Absolutely stress free really. Feel embarrassed to be on the same as a nurse.
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It was only when I reached the last word that I realised you were talking about nurses and not Conservative MPs...
 
The Stockport Iniesta said:
No chance of a GE mate, she was asked to call one at pm's questions in parliament.

Her answer was "the last thing we need is a general election"

The "we" is no doubt the parliamentary tory party, and not the country as a whole.
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Another symptom of our broken system. In order to facilitate the change that the majority of the nation wants, it requires a large group of MPs to essentially vote themselves out of a job
 
Then....
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Now...
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The Truss problem is simple - she has nothing that anyone to hang their hat on as a reason to support her - its just about how long they can hang to her until it is just down to single figures in her ratings
 
The perfect fumble said:
We're going round in circles.

Things have moved on since the early 1960s.

There are procedures in place now, Truss does not have it in her power to nominate her successor, so your scenario does not hold up.

Brown did not hang on hoping the Lib Dems would see sense, it was established early on that the Lib Dems weren't interested in a Lib/Lab whatever. He hung about while the Tories and Lib Dems haggled over cabinets positions, policy and whatnot, in fact if you read Alistair Campbell's account of that time Brown was forever on the blower telling them to get a move on.

MPs return to their constituencies this weekend, expect cabinet resignations early next week, back bench letters piling up at the 1922 and then the men in grey suits will come calling, but before they do there'll be a quiet coup, the Liz Truss libertarian fruitcakes will be told to shut the fuck up and they'll find a nice Tory corporatist and maybe a one nation Tory side kick to face up the post Truss government.

Remember the majority of the Conservative Parliamentary Party wanted Sunak, it was only the shire Tory fruitcakes that tipped it in Truss's favour.

In such a situation Truss will resign because if she doesn't it'll go to a vote of no confidence in Parliament and no PM wants that humiliation.
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There was a BBC radio prog that covered the 2010 negotiations (last 9 mins of https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b00v1php ), and even after Brown agreed to resign the possibility remained of a Lab/LibDem agreement. https://www.france24.com/en/2010051...leader-uk-election-coalition-british-politics
I don't think that necessarily is at odds with the Campbell account - just a week being a long time in politics.

I'll defend the idea of the outgoing PM's involvement. See the Cabinet Manual 2.9: In modern times the convention has been that the Sovereign should not be drawn into party politics, and if there is doubt it is the responsibility of those involved in the political process, and in particular the parties represented in Parliament, to seek to determine and communicate clearly to the Sovereign who is best placed to be able to command the confidence of the House of Commons. As the Crown’s principal adviser this responsibility falls especially on the incumbent Prime Minister, who at the time of his or her resignation may also be asked by the Sovereign for a recommendation on who can best command the confidence of the House of Commons in his or her place.

2.18 covers the current situation: Where a Prime Minister chooses to resign from his or her individual position at a time when his or her administration has an overall majority in the House of Commons, it is for the party or parties in government to identify who can be chosen as the successor.


But I can't trace anything official for how "the party in government" would communicate that - especially if the resigning PM is telling the monarch a different preference. Does "the party" mean its MPs (it's the MPs who are the ones with an overall majority), or some make-it-up-as-the-1922-committee-feels-like process?
 
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