GortonBlue62
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The only thing I can think of is that if the away fans don't take the third tier, then the seats that would have been empty, because of segregation, could then be occupied.
Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread
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LEXSTARproject
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My suggestion would be to follow that walkway and install your new corporate areas here underneath the walkway, then on top of the new corporate boxes install new screens. This would not affect the roof in the stadium
Is there any reason the expansion couldn’t add an extra block to either side? It would make matching up with the sides more involved in the future, but I can’t think of another reason.
supercity88
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I’ve had a look back at the application for the SS/NS expansion. City have approval to expand the stadium to a total of 62,170 from 47,670 (14,500) additional seats. However, it limited the expansion of each stand to a total of 6,250 seats which would leave the 2,000 missing seats as those at pitch level which have subsequently gone due to the double advertising boards. That gives us the current 53,920 (or thereabouts). The NS based on this original application would then take us to 60,170.
From reading through the planning statement/DAS the club has carried out feasibility based on expansion of the whole ground. They’re looking at an end figure in excess of 70,000 to challenge United, Bayern, Real and Barca in terms of capacity/hospitality offerings and being one of the very elite stadia. As a planner myself, I know the issues you can face trying to get planning permission. (I also have no engineering knowledge hence my queries on build logistics!).
Reading between the lines, it’s clear that the City Council are keen to retain the unique design of the Etihad – which is led by the roof cablenet system. Therefore, the club have looked to the maximum capacity overall which retains this architectural feature (albeit in an amended form). The SS and NS can only be increased by 6,250 based on this approach before viewing/safety/structural compromises occur. Safe standing may increase the total but I think talk of the NS adding 10,000 seats is unlikely.
The corners are temporary and designed to be easily amended to accommodate the side stand expansion which will tie in and retain the bowl design. Eventually the sides will be much larger third tiers too and add probably 5,000+ seats each side of the ground to take us up to 70,000 – realistically from looking at the images I would expect us to be looking at much more than 5,000 on each side and we’ll have the ultimate aim of pushing beyond Old Trafford and being the biggest in Greater Manchester! They've modelled the stadium in the image above, with the side stands expanded as well.
Visually they want to have the stadium wrapped with curtain glazing/cladding to be able to provide an improved design. This will be through a combination of lighting/posters (which would be see-through from within the stadium). Some feasibility/design evolution images attached.
From reading through the planning statement/DAS the club has carried out feasibility based on expansion of the whole ground. They’re looking at an end figure in excess of 70,000 to challenge United, Bayern, Real and Barca in terms of capacity/hospitality offerings and being one of the very elite stadia. As a planner myself, I know the issues you can face trying to get planning permission. (I also have no engineering knowledge hence my queries on build logistics!).
Reading between the lines, it’s clear that the City Council are keen to retain the unique design of the Etihad – which is led by the roof cablenet system. Therefore, the club have looked to the maximum capacity overall which retains this architectural feature (albeit in an amended form). The SS and NS can only be increased by 6,250 based on this approach before viewing/safety/structural compromises occur. Safe standing may increase the total but I think talk of the NS adding 10,000 seats is unlikely.The corners are temporary and designed to be easily amended to accommodate the side stand expansion which will tie in and retain the bowl design. Eventually the sides will be much larger third tiers too and add probably 5,000+ seats each side of the ground to take us up to 70,000 – realistically from looking at the images I would expect us to be looking at much more than 5,000 on each side and we’ll have the ultimate aim of pushing beyond Old Trafford and being the biggest in Greater Manchester! They've modelled the stadium in the image above, with the side stands expanded as well.
Visually they want to have the stadium wrapped with curtain glazing/cladding to be able to provide an improved design. This will be through a combination of lighting/posters (which would be see-through from within the stadium). Some feasibility/design evolution images attached.
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LEXSTARproject
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Here is Spurs set-up , we should copy that we also copy they intertior facilities which are just amazing which include a in-house brewary, market space featuring a foot court and the goaline bar. The two lines that run down East and West Stands are there coporate area and boxes, there coporate area join up with the North Stand by following the curve in the staduim, City could copy this so giving the ground its extra coporate areas this could be done on our South Stand and North Stand then you could place the new LED screens above it. The new North Stand needs to be a copy of the Spurs South Stand, the stand here is one combined stand but it is clearly disigned it actualy two stands joined together , so city could copy that by changing the front of the North Stand into a elovated safe standing section and then build a expanded joint second tier as discussed above.
supercity88
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Not that simple with the cable net being seen as an architectural feature that needs retaining and just general construction logistics. It will be a two tier stand at best, three tiers otherwise.
LEXSTARproject
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Good work Supercity 88 I know a bit about planning, they maybe need to put in another or amended planning application for the North Stand as they look like they are going to change the original plans, there was also talk of a new city square maybe they log it with that. Planning applications normal last about 5 years, @jrb is the best person to ask
supercity88
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The current application has been implemented so it's extant. If they want to change proposals then yes they'll need to submit a new application.
blueparrot
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I assume because to make it a single tier the stand would need to be closed and rebuilt for a season. Seems no point when they could do a large 2nd tier with no closures.
LEXSTARproject
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I am sure the clever people and Populous will be able to sort that out. I agree with you about the two-tier with a new elevated safe standing first tier. The new first-tier section could be done in the summer with a new expanded second tier done within the season just like Liverpool are doing
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Jesus H Gabz
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Could it not be under 4’s who are free (sit on the knee) but would possibly be counted for H&S ? I regularly take the grandson who’s 2, went to his first derby this season (SS1) and he even copied a few hand signals courtesy of those behind me the little **** can see less kids & more seg at those games
supercity88
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I am sure the clever people and Populous will be able to sort that out. I agree with you about the two-tier with a new elevated safe standing first tier. The new first-tier section could be done in the summer with a new expanded second tier done within the season just like Liverpool are doing
Collections Archive | Populous
It's not about being clever. From the original planning application it is clear that the design ethos was to try and retain the cable net system as an architectural feature. That might not have been City's words, the Council may have seen it as a design that was worth retaining and part of what makes the stadium special. In doing so, it means they have to retain a system and the SS is the optimum expansion that can retain that cable net whilst also getting more seats in. They can't do anything further in terms of number of seats etc without impacting structural integrity or having areas with impaired views which they'll not accept in a modern stadium. We're not building from scratch here, there's a context which limits our ability to do certain things.
Personally, I think the cable net is a unique feature but could have been limited to the side stands only. It's likely the footprint of the NS will need to come out further than the SS if we're to include the club store and any hotel/additional facilities. I think you can do that without it being noticeable and harming the "bowl" design or aesthetic of the stadium. But they'll still need to have the V cable punching through.
supercity88
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Didn't mean to snap (read it back and sounds arsey!).
Quite right, their brief will be quite simple. Maximise capacity whilst ensuring quickest return on investment and minimising disruption. Ideally enabling works and prep prior to beginning works over one summer and finishing the next summer ready for the new season.
Timing-wise I can't see how it starts in summer 23 unless they're sticking to the current proposals. They'll need planning permission otherwise so I would imagine we would be looking at a start in 24 to use that summer initially and complete it in summer 25 for the 25/26 season. A long way off basically!
Thinking about the design, I wonder if the Council would accept the V supports being enclosed by an expanded stand but shown through the curtain glazing. Spurs have something similar. Obviously not sure how much of the desigb rationale was from the Council originally, but there's lots of talk about retaining its current architectural merit in the planning application. That's usually just nonsense design chat to justify something though.
kippax81
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I shared the Kickair information. I did, however, also say don't shoot the messenger :-)
The info I received was from somebody I know very well who is involved in High Tech business in and around Manchester. As far as I'm aware he would have no reason to pull my plonker, so to speak. He seemed very sure of his facts so I thought I would share with the forum. I am due to meet with him on Friday so I will try and dig out a bit more information.
Possibly the club could buy the land and then lease it out? Maybe this is a start of the collar site development we have all been waiting for?
I suppose this is like a transfer saga...nobody really knows 100% apart from the people who sign their names on the contracts etc.
supercity88
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That's right.
nmc
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Sorry - I didn’t intend to make you feel under fire!
supercity88
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No I think there will be screens in each corner and the openness for air flow. Looking at the images for a fully expanded stadium it looks as though the side stands extend and curve into the corners more but whether that actually will happen who knows!
