Shamima Begum

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I can’t help thinking that reinstating her citizenship would not subject the UK to ‘very high harm’ in respect of terrorism, war crimes or serious organised crime, as is the law. I also find it odd that this decision, when it was made was entirely at the discretion of the Home Secretary.

Removing for fraud however, is entirely reasonable, as it doesn’t then render the person ‘stateless’.

My issue with this is that we have literally hundreds of idiots that went off to fight for Isis/aq over the last 20 years that have been allowed back and they have actually participated in terrorist acts etc. Begum basically went over there to do the dishes and be used as a jihadist sex-doll and we regard her as especially dangerous?

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

 

[Bigga]

An interesting point was made at the hearing by an MI6 agent. He stated she was 15 at the time she went abroad, she was intelligent with anticipated grades in exams of A and A+. She was not uneducated, she knew or must have known what IS were doing and the horrors they had alrwady committed. He stated she made the decision to go.

I've heard some really STUPID reasoning and this is up there with them.

Intelligence is separate from emotional reasoning and at 15, one can think they are grown up enough to make adult decisions without having the ability to reflect on how their future would be affected.

As a adult, hindsight is 20/20.

15 year olds lie about age, lie about sex and lie about just about anything to make themselves older than their age when they have the drive to do so.

Anybody listening to the M16 agent and not factoring how they were (and people they know) at 15 is a complete fucking idiot.

 

[Bigga]

Have to agree. Any child under 16 who is talked into sex, no matter how willingly, is said to be a victim. This is no different.

B-b-b-but, she's a 'terrorist' and grew up, so it's different...

 

[Allnightlong]

just remember what she said about the Manchester Arena bombing.

 

[hilts]

I've heard some really STUPID reasoning and this is up there with them.

Intelligence is separate from emotional reasoning and at 15, one can think they are grown up enough to make adult decisions without having the ability to reflect on how their future would be affected.

As a adult, hindsight is 20/20.

15 year olds lie about age, lie about sex and lie about just about anything to make themselves older than their age when they have the drive to do so.

Anybody listening to the M16 agent and not factoring how they were (and people they know) at 15 is a complete fucking idiot.

And then one day you wake up and you're an adult and are responsible for your actions.

Who knew you could develop sound morals after just 8 hours kip.

 

[Bigga]

just remember what she said about the Manchester Arena bombing.

If she could walk that back, she would 100%.

As deplorable as that was, I have read comments on BM about the death of people caveated with 'too soon?' attached like it's a cool joke.

It's all in bad taste, imo.

 

[Allnightlong]

If she could walk that back, she would 100%.

As deplorable as that was, I have read comments on BM about the death of people caveated with 'too soon?' attached like it's a cool joke.

It's all in bad taste, imo.

so as long as we regret things thats ok.

ok.

 

[Bigga]

And then one day you wake up and you're an adult and are responsible for your actions.

Who knew you could develop sound morals after just 8 hours kip.

No different to some 12-17 year old stabbing someone to death and then the epiphany, as an adult, hits them as they say "what the fuck did I do?" as they pay for their crimes.

Begum should pay for her crime in Britain as she's said she's willing to do.

 

[Allnightlong]

No different to some 12-17 year old stabbing someone to death and then the epiphany, as an adult, hits them as they say "what the fuck did I do?" as they pay for their crimes.

Begum should pay for her crime in Britain as she's said she's willing to do.

joining a terrorist organisation is a bit different to be honest.

 

[Bigga]

so as long as we regret things thats ok.

ok.

Yeah, regret is an actual thing.

I'm pretty sure you, as with pretty much everyone else, has some pretty regrettable things you wish you could walk back.

Unless your life is 'clean'...?

 

[Bigga]

joining a terrorist organisation is a bit different to be honest.

Nobody has said she wasn't dumb.

But, by the same token, there's no evidence she killed anyone, but had a few babies.

She has been a dick, that much is clear, but she's grown the fuck up years ago.

 

[Allnightlong]

Yeah, regret is an actual thing.

I'm pretty sure you, as with pretty much everyone else, has some pretty regrettable things you wish you could walk back.

Unless your life is 'clean'...?

not to the extreme of joining a terrorist organisation.

pretty clean tho.

 

[hilts]

No different to some 12-17 year old stabbing someone to death and then the epiphany, as an adult, hits them as they say "what the fuck did I do?" as they pay for their crimes.

Begum should pay for her crime in Britain as she's said she's willing to do.

That's nice of her. The analogy of a 12 year old really doesn't work I'm afraid. Anyhow we have all done daft shit when we are young and still do as we get older. But people have a line even at 15 that they won't cross. The line is different for each individual but its there and there isn't any magical enlightenment that occurs when you blow out the 16 candles on your cake.

This isn't a 15 year old supping cider and giving a blow job in the park.

Anyhow eventually the legal process will come to a conclusion and she will reside in this country, full of remorse no doubt because this isn't self interest on her part obviously.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

just remember what she said about the Manchester Arena bombing.

Yes, and I know that is going to push a few buttons with folk on here especially, but saying crass inappropriate and offensive things puts her in the same category as Jimmy Carr, Chubby Brown and Russel Brand - not Osama Bin Laden.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

That's nice of her. The analogy of a 12 year old really doesn't work I'm afraid. Anyhow we have all done daft shit when we are young and still do as we get older. But people have a line even at 15 that they won't cross. The line is different for each individual but its there and there isn't any magical enlightenment that occurs when you blow out the 16 candles on your cake.

This isn't a 15 year old supping cider and giving a blow job in the park.

Anyhow eventually the legal process will come to a conclusion and she will reside in this country, full of remorse no doubt because this isn't self interest on her part obviously.

What you are arguing is fine, but the law states that 15 is a child and 16 isn’t necessarily.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Yes, and I know that is going to push a few buttons with folk on here especially, but saying crass inappropriate and offensive things puts her in the same category as Jimmy Carr, Cubby Brown and Russel Brand - not Osama Bin Laden.

Has it got so bad that Royston has had to resort to gay-for-pay?

 

[DelToro]

This isn't a 15 year old supping cider and giving a blow job in the park.

So that was you? Well it was dark and that cider was strong.

 

[Allnightlong]

If she could walk that back, she would 100%.

As deplorable as that was, I have read comments on BM about the death of people caveated with 'too soon?' attached like it's a cool joke.

It's all in bad taste, imo.

should her father take abit of the blame....after all he did take her on islamist marches when she was 13.

 

[goalmole]

joining a terrorist organisation is a bit different to be honest.

What you are arguing is what is and isn't politically acceptable. In both instances children are groomed and used to commit illegal acts by adults who are the real culprits.
It's not any different to a kid joining a gang and killing or being killed in the name of that gang(of which there is no evidence that she personally has ever such a thing). Is the psyche or morality of a 15 year old kid that gets swept up into the gang culture any different to what Shamima Begum's was aged 15. I would argue not.
She was as naive, immature and impressionable as any 15 year old that gets persuaded to join a gang by older members with their own evil agendas.