VAR thread 2022/23

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stonerblue said:
Seems the camera system is the favoured one but there is also a sensor system.
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A couple of seasons back, a team, can't remember who but they were fighting relegation, scored a perfectly good goal BUT, the refs watch didn't bleep so he did not award it. It was later stated the keeper was obscuring the camera. There are no sensors (to my knowledge)

Edit 14 cameras mounted on the stadium roof according to fifa.com
 
Blue Mist said:
A couple of seasons back, a team, can't remember who but they were fighting relegation, scored a perfectly good goal BUT, the refs watch didn't bleep so he did not award it. It was later stated the keeper was obscuring the camera. There are no sensors (to my knowledge)

Edit 14 cameras mounted on the stadium roof according to fifa.com
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I don't mean together (sensor and camear). SWP posted article a bit back
 
But the handball, but the handball, but the handball...........
Lol, I believe that if refs and assistants were still encouraged to use their own eyes and believe in themselves again - it would have been given by one or the other at the time.
The reliance on VAR is the enemy. Encouraging lethargy and non decision making.
 
Paladin said:
Conspiracy brigade? All we are doing is trying to find credible explanations from the evidence before us.

1. The corner taker wasn't offside at any point. Any competent referee's assistant will know that being in an offside position isn't the same as being offside. He was in an offside position for the first header (unsurprising really, as he had just taken the corner). But he was at least 30 yards away from the ball, and the ball stayed in front of the goal.

2. He was in an onside position when the second header was made.

3. He was not offside at any point during that attack.

4. Given he wasn't offside, why was he flagged offside? Why is nobody asking the linesman why he interpreted this as offside? He should be punished for making such basic errors.

5. What was the signal from Madley to his linesman?

6. Why didn't the linesman signal for offside until after Madley gave this gesture with his hand.

7. Why did the linesman appear to go towards the centre of the pitch, and change his mind after he saw the signal from Madley.

8. Can we hear the conversations between officials, if they have nothing to hide.

These are all genuine concerns, that PGMOL and other governing bodies are ignoring. It screams BENT.

All we have from them is that there wasn't enough video evidence to overturn the original decision, as if the offside decision in itself was marginal. It wasn't. As I said above, no competent assistant referee would have deemed that as offside.
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Why wasn't the offside marginal? It looks to be close enough in the image you've shown? Being 30 yards away from the ball doesn't stop you being offside.

Still - the not enough video evidence involved only one camera catching the action, while the second was zoomed into the box, where action was expected to take place. With just one camera angle, when it's similar to the shot you've given, it's impossible for a human to judge accurately. We've seen that numerous times where a player looked onside, but when the line is drawn across the pitch it's a clear offside.

It's also impossible for assistants to get all close calls right - They can't really look at two things at once (the ball and the last man), and if the assistant is just a foot out of line with the ball, then a player on the other side of the pitch could easily appear to be the last man, while being onside.

The usual arguments on here are about just how fast a player can move between frames, so I really can't see how we can say that image shows a clearly onside player.

It would be nice to know what was said between ref and assistant, but if you take VAR out of the equation because it ultimately had no impact, then it's simply a tricky call that the assistant may have got wrong.
 
Blue Mist said:
No. Thanks to Var the refs dont need to make important decisions, they simply wait for Var. Why give a decision and then look stupid when Var overturn it, just leave it to someone else to do the hardwork.
That cannot be right. Once you decide you don't need to be mentally alert you are on a downward slope.
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This, coupled with the “clear and obvious error” threshold, is arguably the biggest issue with VAR.

It means referees can just wait for VAR to review incidents instead of making a decision on the field when the incident occurs and then VAR can say that there isn’t enough evidence to say it was a clear and obvious error by the referee to not make a decision (and vice versa, as we saw last night).

It’s a farce, made real by Madley every week.
 
Blue Mist said:
No. Thanks to Var the refs dont need to make important decisions, they simply wait for Var. Why give a decision and then look stupid when Var overturn it, just leave it to someone else to do the hardwork.
That cannot be right. Once you decide you don't need to be mentally alert you are on a downward slope.
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so before VAR, refs would of gave that decision to City ?
 
Paladin said:
Conspiracy brigade? All we are doing is trying to find credible explanations from the evidence before us.

1. The corner taker wasn't offside at any point. Any competent referee's assistant will know that being in an offside position isn't the same as being offside. He was in an offside position for the first header (unsurprising really, as he had just taken the corner). But he was at least 30 yards away from the ball, and the ball stayed in front of the goal.

2. He was in an onside position when the second header was made.

3. He was not offside at any point during that attack.

4. Given he wasn't offside, why was he flagged offside? Why is nobody asking the linesman why he interpreted this as offside? He should be punished for making such basic errors.

5. What was the signal from Madley to his linesman?

6. Why didn't the linesman signal for offside until after Madley gave this gesture with his hand.

7. Why did the linesman appear to go towards the centre of the pitch, and change his mind after he saw the signal from Madley.

8. Can we hear the conversations between officials, if they have nothing to hide.

These are all genuine concerns, that PGMOL and other governing bodies are ignoring. It screams BENT.

All we have from them is that there wasn't enough video evidence to overturn the original decision, as if the offside decision in itself was marginal. It wasn't. As I said above, no competent assistant referee would have deemed that as offside.
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I wasn’t necessarily including you as being in the conspiracy brigade. To be honestly I rarely pay much attention to who I’m replying to.

But some people are convinced that every single referee and every single organisation is involved in one huge scam to fuck City over and benefit Liverpool. Ironically normally the first people to accuse Liverpool fans of having a victim mentality. Which is all fair enough, if that’s what they think. But there’s little point in debating with them, as their answer to everything is… Because it/ he/ they are bent.
 
SebastianBlue said:
This, coupled with the “clear and obvious error” threshold, is arguably the biggest issue with VAR.

It means referees can just wait for VAR to review incidents instead of making a decision on the field when the incident occurs and then VAR can say that there isn’t enough evidence to say it was a clear and obvious error by the referee to not make a decision (and vice versa, as we saw last night).

It’s a farce, made real by Madley every week.
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I wonder if there's much research into whether less penalties are given by the onfield ref post-VAR?
 
bluenova said:
I wonder if there's much research into whether less penalties are given by the onfield ref post-VAR?
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The number of penalties as a stand-alone statistic is largely irrelevant. But if you were to analyse percentage of game time in possession in the opposition penalty area against the number of penalties awarded there might be something in it.
 
Paladin said:
Conspiracy brigade? All we are doing is trying to find credible explanations from the evidence before us.

1. The corner taker wasn't offside at any point. Any competent referee's assistant will know that being in an offside position isn't the same as being offside. He was in an offside position for the first header (unsurprising really, as he had just taken the corner). But he was at least 30 yards away from the ball, and the ball stayed in front of the goal.

2. He was in an onside position when the second header was made.

3. He was not offside at any point during that attack.

4. Given he wasn't offside, why was he flagged offside? Why is nobody asking the linesman why he interpreted this as offside? He should be punished for making such basic errors.

5. What was the signal from Madley to his linesman?

6. Why didn't the linesman signal for offside until after Madley gave this gesture with his hand.

7. Why did the linesman appear to go towards the centre of the pitch, and change his mind after he saw the signal from Madley.

8. Can we hear the conversations between officials, if they have nothing to hide.

These are all genuine concerns, that PGMOL and other governing bodies are ignoring. It screams BENT.

All we have from them is that there wasn't enough video evidence to overturn the original decision, as if the offside decision in itself was marginal. It wasn't. As I said above, no competent assistant referee would have deemed that as offside.
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there's some explanation and what seems pretty balanced on here

www.espn.co.uk

VAR Review: Explaining the offside drama in Liverpool vs. Wolves

Liverpool and Wolverhampton Wanderers played out a 2-2 draw in the third round of the FA Cup at Anfield. This is what happened with VAR.
www.espn.co.uk www.espn.co.uk

1-4 is basically saying why did the official make the wrong decision - because they do... every weekend pre VAR officials were making wrong/bad decisions and they still do now - how many times has a lino flagged wrong and VAR over turned because it was clearly onside - it happens on a weekly basis. is it corruption every time a official makes a bad judgment ?

point 5-6 - there's just not conclusive proof Madley is definitely telling the lino to stick his flag up, it's a 1 second clip or blurry image that doesn't prove anything

point 8 - I've agreed with this, i'd be happy for that to happen - but will it really resolve those who believe it's all a conspiracy ? imagine the dissection for every conversation between the officials during a controversial grey area decision - people/social media would have a field day questioning every word that was said during the convo.

also I do agree all stadiums should have sufficient set ups to calibrate offsides - Liverpool had a goal against them given v Arsenal for the same reasoning - that really needs to be addressed going forward.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
point 5-6 - there's just not conclusive proof Madley is definitely telling the lino to stick his flag up, it's a 1 second clip or blurry image that doesn't prove anything
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People at the game said that the linesman was walking back to the centre circle until Madley jestured toward him, he then raised his flag, and Madley blew the whistle. That all happened after the ball was in the back of the net. Are we meant to ignore what people (that it saw with their own eyes) are saying now?

Only then did the commentators on the TV broadcast say the flag was up — I posted highlights earlier in the thread that shows this.

I am sure fan captured video will pop up showing this (given the highlights conspicuously leave out when the linesman raises his flag, despite several angles obviously capturing it, just as fan captured video showed the “blind spot” position of Nunes when he became active in play).
 
BlueHammer85 said:
there's some explanation and what seems pretty balanced on here

www.espn.co.uk

VAR Review: Explaining the offside drama in Liverpool vs. Wolves

Liverpool and Wolverhampton Wanderers played out a 2-2 draw in the third round of the FA Cup at Anfield. This is what happened with VAR.
www.espn.co.uk www.espn.co.uk

1-4 is basically saying why did the official make the wrong decision - because they do... every weekend pre VAR officials were making wrong/bad decisions and they still do now - how many times has a lino flagged wrong and VAR over turned because it was clearly onside - it happens on a weekly basis. is it corruption every time a official makes a bad judgment ?

point 5-6 - there's just not conclusive proof Madley is definitely telling the lino to stick his flag up, it's a 1 second clip or blurry image that doesn't prove anything

point 8 - I've agreed with this, i'd be happy for that to happen - but will it really resolve those who believe it's all a conspiracy ? imagine the dissection for every conversation between the officials during a controversial grey area decision - people/social media would have a field day questioning every word that was said during the convo.

also I do agree all stadiums should have sufficient set ups to calibrate offsides - Liverpool had a goal against them given v Arsenal for the same reasoning - that really needs to be addressed going forward.
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The linesman is walking back towards the halfway line until the interaction with the referee, at which point he abruptly turns and puts his flag up.

There is 'no conclusive proof' because the PL/FA/PGMOL refuse to release the communications, which leaves them WIDE OPEN to calls of skulduggery. They could quash that in a single stroke. The fact that they won't speaks VOLUMES.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
The linesman is walking back towards the halfway line until the interaction with the referee, at which point he abruptly turns and puts his flag up.

There is 'no conclusive proof' because the PL/FA/PGMOL refuse to release the communications, which leaves them WIDE OPEN to calls of skulduggery. They could quash that in a single stroke. The fact that they won't speaks VOLUMES.
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It’s amazing the mental gymnastics some fans go through to explain away completely unnecessary inconsistencies in the application of rules and supporting systems and refusal by the PL/FA/PGMOL to implement simple, practically no cost changes to substantially improve transparency and confidence in the integrity of the game.

With any other industry it would be obvious to every observer why companies were refusing to do it, but with football, many fans just create elaborate and nonsensical reasoning for it.
 
SebastianBlue said:
I am sure fan captured video will pop up showing this (given the highlights conspicuously leave out when the linesman raises his flag, despite several angles obviously capturing it, just as fan captured video showed the “blind spot” position of Nunes when he became active in play).
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honestly I'm opened to be swayed. if there's a clip which definitely shows the ref telling the lino to stick his flag up - then I'll happily concede this point

for me the lino thought he saw a offside in the phase of play and like they are doing nowadays frustratingly delays the moment he sticks his flag up - he got it wrong - VAR couldn't overturn because they didn't have the angle in place - I totally get the anger over this
 
Stephen230 said:
I wasn’t necessarily including you as being in the conspiracy brigade. To be honestly I rarely pay much attention to who I’m replying to.

But some people are convinced that every single referee and every single organisation is involved in one huge scam to fuck City over and benefit Liverpool. Ironically normally the first people to accuse Liverpool fans of having a victim mentality. Which is all fair enough, if that’s what they think. But there’s little point in debating with them, as their answer to everything is… Because it/ he/ they are bent.
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The strawman is back.
 
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