VAR thread 2022/23

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Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Liverpool raised it about another club, but it must have slipped their mind to mention the issues at their ground... And NOBODY called them out on it.
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agreed, this should have been resolved a long time ago.

It does prove why we need working VAR though - linos and officials get it wrong (way more) without tech help.
 
Stephen230 said:
I don’t know who sets the cameras up for VAR use but I imagine it would be connected to whoever maintains the other VAR equipment. The problem at Anfield wasn’t a blind spot but that the camera(s) that captured the incident hadn’t been calibrated for VAR use. This image is from what they call the high tactical camera, which isn’t calibrated for VAR use.

3eb1432978f6a09b5ee3a883b672c743.jpg


Why there wasn’t a better placed camera that was calibrated I’ve no idea. Whether it’s an Anfield issue or ITV or whoever they contract out the camera work to?

What hasn’t been mentioned by the conspiracy brigade is that the only other time I’m aware of this problem happening is when an Arsenal goal stood against Liverpool earlier in the season at The Emirates because no camera that captured Saka out near the touchline was calibrated for VAR use.

When they eventually bring in semi automated offside technology, where every player is tracked, it’ll remove this issue.
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This implies there are 5 var camera
Stephen230 said:
I don’t know who sets the cameras up for VAR use but I imagine it would be connected to whoever maintains the other VAR equipment. The problem at Anfield wasn’t a blind spot but that the camera(s) that captured the incident hadn’t been calibrated for VAR use. This image is from what they call the high tactical camera, which isn’t calibrated for VAR use.

3eb1432978f6a09b5ee3a883b672c743.jpg


Why there wasn’t a better placed camera that was calibrated I’ve no idea. Whether it’s an Anfield issue or ITV or whoever they contract out the camera work to?

What hasn’t been mentioned by the conspiracy brigade is that the only other time I’m aware of this problem happening is when an Arsenal goal stood against Liverpool earlier in the season at The Emirates because no camera that captured Saka out near the touchline was calibrated for VAR use.

When they eventually bring in semi automated offside technology, where every player is tracked, it’ll remove this issue.
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This implies there are 5 dedicated var cameras plus access to the broadcast cameras. There are dedicated offside cameras so if they had to use the non calibrated high tactical camera then that suggests a blindspot or a failing in the var camera. Looking at the image the offside player isn't in an usual position. Maybe the camera is on the opposite side and can't see through the other players. Regardless if the var can't see it then the refs decision has to be taken

www.premierleague.com

How offsides are determined by VAR

See how the Video Assistant Referee uses Hawk-Eye to make offside decisions
www.premierleague.com www.premierleague.com
 
BlueHammer85 said:
agreed, this should have been resolved a long time ago.

It does prove why we need working VAR though - linos and officials get it wrong (way more) without tech help.
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Lino's and ref's did get it wrong in the past (for whatever reason), and the responsibility fell solely on them. Then there was the period where they were mic'd up and we were told that was nothing to do with remote refereeing of the game (even though there was countless examples of referee's seeming to change their minds). Then VAR was introduced, which increases the number of people responsible for reaching the correct decision... and they still get it wrong with ZERO comeback or accountability.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Lino's and ref's did get it wrong in the past (for whatever reason)
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Because they are human, no one on here could ref matches with 100% consistency - handballs, dives, offsides can all very easily be missed by the human eye however obvious it looks on reply

was VAR definitely going to get everything right when it was introduced - no, I never believed that

it has reduced the officials mistakes though, no clear dives are being awarded nowadays (Liverpool ZERO penalties this season), no clear offsides are being given, clear handballs are being given (I'm sure there is a few cases not so)

footballs fundamental issue is that it still has so many grey areas and so many officals/fans/pundits interpret decisions differently - a hard tackle with a follow through being the case - you can't have a blueprint handbook for every incident - it's impossible

ultimately with VAR we have a chance of getting more right, alot more right than without

broken record mode, answered all i can. i've got some work to do! laters.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Because they are human, no one on here could ref matches with 100% consistency - handballs, dives, offsides can all very easily be missed by the human eye however obvious it looks on reply

was VAR definitely going to get everything right when it was introduced - no, I never believed that

it has reduced the officials mistakes though, no clear dives are being awarded nowadays (Liverpool ZERO penalties this season), no clear offsides are being given, clear handballs are being given (I'm sure there is a few cases not so)

footballs fundamental issue is that it still has so many grey areas and so many officals/fans/pundits interpret decisions differently - a hard tackle with a follow through being the case - you can't have a blueprint handbook for every incident - it's impossible

ultimately with VAR we have a chance of getting more right, alot more right than without

broken record mode, answered all i can. i've got some work to do! laters.
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Explain this infamous Utd v Arsenal game where Riley allowed Reyes to get systematically kicked out of the game by all but the Utd goalkeeper until he finally gave Phil Chuckle a yellow that should have been a red, and gave the dodgiest of penalties against Sol Campbell?

When you realise THIS guy went on to be the HEAD OF THE PGMOL...

 
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Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Explain Riley in the infamous Utd v Arsenal game where he allowed Reyes to get systematically kicked out of the game by all but the Utd goalkeeper until he finally gave Phil Chuckle a yellow that should have been a red, and gave the dodgiest of penalties against Viera (IIRC)?

That guy went on to be the HEAD OF THE PGMOL.
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was you happier pre VAR with games being officiated like that ?
 
SebastianBlue said:
@BlueHammer85 @Stephen230

Please provide reasonable explanations for the following (years in to VAR use, mind):

1) PL/FA/PGMOL refusal to share audio of officials during matches (the audio is already broadcast; this would be a near zero cost and technical change implementation).

2) Certain clubs (namely Liverpool and United) being allowed to have substantially different VAR supporting system setups, including fewer cameras leading to “blind spots” in VAR coverage, compared to other clubs in the league.
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Webb has said he’s looking at releasing some audio after certain games, as he did when he was in charge in America. It won’t be live though, for now at least. You’d have to ask him or draw your own conclusions why that is. I could guess but what would be the point of that?

I’m not aware that United and Liverpool have substantially different set ups. The only previous case I’ve heard about in England with a similar problem as the other night was in the Arsenal V Liverpool game at The Emirates. Again I can only guess but I assume there is a minimum number of suitable camera areas that are required, which every club adhere to but most clubs have more than the minimum.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
There is no either/or.

There is the exact amount of accountability for an incorrect decision in a modern day PL game as there was in that game in the 2004/5 PL season - Absolutely ZERO.
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watching that clip you posted, it's absolutely farcical how we put up with games like that

there is simply no way Rio would have stayed on the pitch had we had VAR and so many other challenges that would have been punished had we had VAR, I remember feeling that same injustice Arsenal fans felt many a time at West Ham with games like that. It still happens now I concede but nowhere at that level.

Scrap VAR and some think everything will be alright ! watch that video - it exactly highlights how bad officiating was on a regular basis.
 
Stephen230 said:
Webb has said he’s looking at releasing some audio after certain games, as he did when he was in charge in America. It won’t be live though, for now at least. You’d have to ask him or draw your own conclusions why that is. I could guess but what would be the point of that?

I’m not aware that United and Liverpool have substantially different set ups. The only previous case I’ve heard about in England with a similar problem as the other night was in the Arsenal V Liverpool game at The Emirates. Again I can only guess but I assume there is a minimum number of suitable camera areas that are required, which every club adhere to but most clubs have more than the minimum.
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I think describing half the cameras of other grounds (and no big screens to show VAR review) leading to blind spots for VAR assessment as “substantially different” is pretty reasonable.

Number of cameras varies—for reasons passing understanding and standards of competitive fairness—from 4 to 8. Liverpool only has 4, with at a least one blind spot for VAR review resulting from the 50% setup.

This means VAR review is substantially different at Anfield than at the Etihad, both the for clubs and the fans.

Strawman grasping a straws?
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Explain this infamous Utd v Arsenal game where Riley allowed Reyes to get systematically kicked out of the game by all but the Utd goalkeeper until he finally gave Phil Chuckle a yellow that should have been a red, and gave the dodgiest of penalties against Sol Campbell?

When you realise THIS guy went on to be the HEAD OF THE PGMOL...

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Sometimes I wonder if it's competence/bad day at the office, or lack of fitness affecting decision making. This is clearly just a brown envelope job/cheating.
There is another rag game against Wigan I think where Rooney in particular got away with multiple assaults (not tackles as mostly arms/elbows at head height) while the ref laughed along with him like best mates.
 
SebastianBlue said:
I think describing half the cameras of other grounds (and no big screens to show VAR review) leading to blind spots for VAR assessment as “substantially different” is pretty reasonable.

Number of cameras varies—for reasons passing understanding and standards of competitive fairness—from 4 to 8. Liverpool only has 4, with at a least one blind spot for VAR review resulting from the 50% setup.

This means VAR review is substantially different at Anfield than at the Etihad, both the for clubs and the fans.

Strawman grasping a straws?
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Exactly, it should be uniform application as a condition of the PL Licence.
The clubs in question have plenty of money so it can only be a conscious decision for them not to install it. And for the PL not to insist they do.
Whatever the reasons behind that decision are, only the clubs and the PL know. Commercial (more seats) or something else. Your guess is as good as mine because there is no transparency or accountability
If nothing else it certainly leaves things open to suspicion
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Sometimes I wonder if it's competence/bad day at the office, or lack of fitness affecting decision making. This is clearly just a brown envelope job/cheating.
There is another rag game against Wigan I think where Rooney in particular got away with multiple assaults (not tackles as mostly arms/elbows at head height) while the ref laughed along with him like best mates.
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Deliberate elbow straight into the face of James McCarthy iirc
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Sometimes I wonder if it's competence/bad day at the office, or lack of fitness affecting decision making. This is clearly just a brown envelope job/cheating.
There is another rag game against Wigan I think where Rooney in particular got away with multiple assaults (not tackles as mostly arms/elbows at head height) while the ref laughed along with him like best mates.
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It just beggars belief that Riley went on to be the head of the PGMOL after many 'performances' like that one.

He was the guy setting the standards that all other referee's were expected to rise to. This is one of the main reasons I find it so difficult to see beyond corruption when we continue to see decisions week-in-week-out (with our without technology) that completely baffle me. And yet there is STILL ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY.
 
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