PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

It's essentially many repetitions of the same charges. We've essentially been accused of about half a dozen things - most of them minor procedural or subjective things like 'not cooperating'.
They've clearly been teased out repetitively into the huge list of 100+ charges for maximum impact/damage so the sheer volume of accusations carries with it inherent implied guilt. If they just charged us with six things over multiple occasions (which is pretty much the case) it wouldn't be half as sensational as this huge list that is like scrolling through the opening credits of star wars.

Yup basically what they are saying because the first year of the accounts in question are not correct in the premier leagues view, every year after is out of sync because of that. Uefa didn’t do that and the fact that the premier league couldn’t even get the original charge sheet right on Monday morning shows this is another fishing trip and a kangaroo court to make sure enough of it sticks.

 

[Norman kneejerk]

Or as Mark Chapman refers to us,
Manchess City.

(Apols, I realise that’s completely irrelevant to your post but it just triggered me after hearing him mispronounce our name for the zillionth time on telly tonight!
He wasn’t being critical of us, and I quite enjoy him as a presenter, but he always does it).

Anyway, grump over. We’ve got bigger things to moan about I guess…

You've reminded me of something there. He does say Manches City but seems capable of saying Manchester United problem free. I know pronunciations can be tricky for folks from other parts of the country and Scotland but seems very idd for a local person, almost as if its intentional.

 

[Bellamy's Caddy]

Thanks mate, that was the main one!

 

[Gingers Dad]

That's the favoured option by any governing body in football. If they expel us they won't get a brass farthing. Points deduction(?) but a whopping fine that keeps the PL living in the lap of luxury!

Funny thing is they never seem very transparent about where the money from a fine goes to.

 

[Centurions]

I was thinking that myself. What triggered the Premier League to investigate us after we won at C A S . It must have been a complaint from other clubs. If the Premier League rules state all clubs have to comply with F.F.P. then why haven't all the clubs that have breached F.F.P. been investigated as they have clearly breached the Premier League rules. There are more than the Scouse gits. These clubs were found guilty and no action was taken as they weren't in European competition at that time.
City should make a formal complaint and demand these clubs be charged for breaking the same rules as they allege we have. Let them get out of that one.

The PL investigation wasn't triggered after CAS dismissed everything except the non-cooperation charge, it was ongoing at the same time based on the 5 or 6 emails released. That's 5 or 6 emails out of approximately 5,500,000 emails they have access to. They developed or bought specialised software to search through the trove to find more damaging stuff and yet have still failed to release anything else.

The FA launched their own investigation regarding Sancho I think based on the same source, they put that to bed after concluding it was nonsense years ago.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

It wouldn't be great for us. We'd just be accused of paying off the league. I think it's gone too far for that.

Agree to an extent, but may depend how any following statement would be worded.

 

[Coatigan]

How was it different? Genuine question as I don’t really know what Rangers did

Thread is already getting derailed, and this does not belong here, but since you are making a comparispn, hopefully puts that side of it to bed.

Rangers spent outwith their means untill they went bust. And were liquidated after not being able to settle the tax bil. They effectively ceased to exist. The assets transferred to a new company, and the league voted to let the effectively new club in at entry level. They werent relegated, they weren't even punished as such, or stripped of titles. They simply rebooted, as a new company. There was no relegation. Or stripping of titles or status. They didn't break any rules, really. They won what they won within the rules. Just not within their means. Or arguably, through mismanagement.

What IS comparable however, is the different takes on it, with a clear and quie binary split, between how Rangers fans see it, and how everyone else sees it.

And worryingly, that is a reality that is likely to fall on City and the fans depending on the outcome. And in some ways already has, if you watch even the current interpretation by others of the CAS verdict and these allegations, and the language used (i.e breaches were time barred, the punishment was 'reduced' by CAS).

 

[Centurions]

More importantly does he track back and can he play left back?

No, but the hacker Rui Pinto does as it happens:-

Rui Pinto - Player profile

Rui Pinto, 21, from Portugal ➤ AD Castro Daire, since 2022 ➤ Left-Back ➤ Market value: - ➤ * Jan 13, 2002 in Porto, Portugal

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Funny thing is they never seem very transparent about where the money from a fine goes to.

They will trot out some untruth about 'grass roots football', and the people running grassroots football will tell you they are delighted with the twenty quid the PL has handed down. Meanwhile, PL apparatchiks are lauded and feted in the exec boxes of the nation's stadia without paying a penny of their own cash.

 

[theres only one carlito]

Thanks mate, that was the main one!

Watch this one where he is apologising for the super league shenanigans. I love our chairman and owner for all that they have done but there’s a fuck up in them from time to time, that he admits to and that’s a worry.

 

[waspish]

Stefan made some very interesting points in his latest podcast.

Firstly, it’s inexplicable, given the time frames, that we could not sit down in a room with the boffins in the PL and not arrive at some sort of deal that saved the face of both parties, and saved millions and millions in the process.

Secondly, given the magnitude, gravity and complexity of the allegations, and everything that this sort of case brings with it in terms of evidence and witnesses, a 3 member PL panel is completely ill-equipped to deal with the demands of such a case.

Thirdly, and very importantly, if (and I emphasise if) we are found to have falsified information, then the biggest losers are we, the diehard fans. Our Board has stewardship over the management of the club. They owe a duty to us to manage the affairs of City in a manner that ensures we, as fans, can enjoy the fruits of their labour.

When I consider all of this, I’m not normally a conspiracy theorist. I don’t believe that Michael Jackson and Elvis are hanging out in some dark dingy bar in Tennessee.

However, the timing of this announcement, the manner in which was announced (complete with journalist tipoff), the vague sweeping nature of the charges, and the nature of the current leadership of the PL, leads me to a conclusion that we have been well and truly set up.

When you believe your innocent why take any deal is where city are at!

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Watch this one where he is apologising for the super league shenanigans. I love our chairman and owner for all that they have done but there’s a fuck up in them from time to time, that he admits to and that’s a worry.

I think it would be more worrying if he didn't admit to it.

 

[waspish]

Unless that "back-up" has actual evidence of how any misdemeanours were accounted for, then it's hearsay.

Even if a player, let's say, was being paid some money from AD and he has the bank statements to prove it, it doesn't mean that the payments weren't accounted for properly in the accounting. And even if they weren't, it wouldn't mean the annual accounts were fraudulent or didn't give a true and fair view as one player wouldn't be material. It would probably breach PL disclosure rules and would mis-state the information used for FFP calculations but, unless they have 10, 20 or 30 of these "back-ups" lined up they couldn't show it wasn't an exceptional case.

Personally, I think it is unlikely they have any "back-up" and if they have a problem with how we pay players, it's probably to do with image rights as a construct, for example, rather than how we handled individual players.

Up to the accuser to find the evidence

 

[Robinho's Subbuteo]

Watch this one where he is apologising for the super league shenanigans. I love our chairman and owner for all that they have done but there’s a fuck up in them from time to time, that he admits to and that’s a worry.

I don't think you can really compare this. One is a bad decision in a very public way and the other would be malpractice and/or deceit in very private way.

 

[Gingers Dad]

There seems to a great deal of worry that we may not be allowed to appeal to the High Court. If we win we certainly will not be interested in appealing to anyone: if, however, we are found guilty of fraud I suspect we would be investigated by the fraud squad and if they considered there was a case to answer we'd be in the High Court if we liked it or not. If we were acquitted the PL would be in the mess, not us. Maybe we don't need to concern ourselves with appeals procedure!

Isn't this why the PL have handed it over to an independent commission?

 

[WRicko]

The non cooperation is interesting I have always felt FFP was a bit weird to really cheat the system you need sponsors to inflate their deals. The only way to do that is if they are related party which is covered or if they are not related party to act as if they are (they won’t ) and you wouldn’t be able to prove it without looking at there accounts which you carnt. The emails or testimony might be the exception but the emails weren’t last time.

Has anyone checked to see if any of United’s American sponsors are paying money into United they shouldn’t ? Are any getting special deals in the Glazers shopping malls ? I jests to an extent of course back in the day we needed the money more than them but now ? They need more they keep spending and until now have been getting it very wrong so need even more money and look at our youth selling policy and the age at which we buy players compared to them ? And even an idiot has to admit that we have lots of real revenue.

So back to my point about non cooperation when the charges see so daft why can we not just cooperate and blow it out the water ? Or have both the Premier League and UEFA been asking for stupid stuff ? Or is it a case of we feel persecuted and have had a hissy fit ? Surely we are better than that ?

 

[Robinho's Subbuteo]

Isn't this why the PL have handed it over to an independent commission?

Out of interest, who is paying the independent commission?

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Maybe we just screwed up with the emails, I would imagine if you hacked into any major companies email accounts there would be some seriously damaging information in them.

If these hacked emails show we were paying the likes of Mancini off the official accounts or Etihad clearly weren't paying the fees directly we are in deep doo doo.

The emails can’t show that though. Whatever form of words is contained therein, that’s all they are, a form of words. When the people who wrote them and received them testified, on oath, that they were completely taken out of context and any actions taken were nothing like the inference, CAS had to believe them, as will the PL, because they have no evidence that that isn’t the case.

 

[mrbelfry]

Obviously there is a lot we don't know but I'm assuming that all the years of false accounting relate to the same issue. Based on what was in the De Spiegel leaks and my faulty memory that's mainly the Etihad deal, third party payments, and Mancini's pay. If I remember rightly CAS said that if we'd fully cooperated with UEFA then we'd not have been charged by them. This makes me think all our ducks are in a row on the Etihad stuff which in theory clears the most damaging charges (assuming it is that which is the alleged infraction).

Causing me a little concern is what was not covered by CAS, what the actual issues are and how competent the Premier League are. So for example I think in 2009/10 one of the rules is logging the managers contract with the EPL by a certain date. Another rule is including a certain section of text but there is no rule I can see about including details of third party or group payments although this wording does come up in later versions of the handbook. It's interesting to see how the rules have developed in response to how City operate. In any event a quick look at the rules by someone like me could argue we've not presumably breached those rules and if Mancini's contract hadnt been logged by the certain date then why not charge us at the time? Unless they are alleging that what we filed wasn't actually Mancini's contract - they have a different version than what was produced in the paper

Or maybe the De Spiegal stuff dropped. Everyone has said we cheated based on that and certain parties demanded the EPL charge us. They've then retrofitted charges based on De Spiegal and not the actual paperwork they are in possession of. EPL didn't really want to open this can of worms hence both sides desire to keep it private but big pressure from other teams means they have to pursue it at least a little. 4 years later they get a new boss who's probably had the usual suspects in her ear "what are you doing about City?" She knows we are cheats because everyone knows we are cheats and so she tells her staff to sort it out with the threat also of an inde-reg looming. Her staff say boss this ain't it just let it die but as is the want of bosses everywhere she insists on something she doesn't quite understand and so we get a rushed and a little fumbled statement on Monday morning. Could the Premier League be this incompetent? How could they charge us for failing FFP when UEFA even haven't charged us with it? Are they so incompetent they've even failed to realise the seriousness of their own accusation and the ineffectiveness of their own structures to deal with them? This may also explain City's slightly flippant responses

It's a fiction which gives me some comfort at least. Until you remember hubris and sometimes incompetent people get really really lucky

 

[Keeper!]

The non cooperation is interesting I have always felt FFP was a bit weird to really cheat the system you need sponsors to inflate their deals. The only way to do that is if they are related party which is covered or if they are not related party to act as if they are (they won’t ) and you wouldn’t be able to prove it without looking at there accounts which you carnt. The emails or testimony might be the exception but the emails weren’t last time.

Has anyone checked to see if any of United’s American sponsors are paying money into United they shouldn’t ? Are any getting special deals in the Glazers shopping malls ? I jests to an extent of course back in the day we needed the money more than them but now ? They need more they keep spending and until now have been getting it very wrong so need even more money and look at our youth selling policy and the age at which we buy players compared to them ? And even an idiot has to admit that we have lots of real revenue.

So back to my point about non cooperation when the charges see so daft why can we not just cooperate and blow it out the water ? Or have both the Premier League and UEFA been asking for stupid stuff ? Or is it a case of we feel persecuted and have had a hissy fit ? Surely we are better than that ?

There were "rumours" that Abramovic was giving money to other clubs to buy Chelsea players at vastly overvalued prices to get over FFP.

These were rumours but the creative ways the rich find to overcome obstacles should not be underestimated.