PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[terraloon]

On what do you base that conclusion?

Read from 274-285 of the CAS findings

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

He is their fucking ring leader . The one who was busy mouthing off “sports washing, state owned, financial doping ,,etc every time he got the airwave. Fucking lying **** and the one who started this crusade against city since the take over .

Same here. In fact I have a feeling he's saying positive stuff just so we can't say he's been totally opposed to City.

It's amazing that people just believe the last things said when all the rest had been literal hatred

 

[terraloon]

Just out of curiosity, who do you actually support?

If you look back to my original posts you will see I support Chelsea you will also note that I am not commenting on the charges per see I made the commeI will only talk about process

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

So, when do we actually expect this independent commission to convene? 6 months? Before that, or after that?

 

[kaz7]

So, when do we actually expect this independent commission to convene? 6 months? Before that, or after that?

Depends when we have our defence ready i think

 

[waspish]

A few months ? They have been building this case for four years , we have the right to take as long as it takes to form our defence , we are fools if we rush it

Maybe they’ll have quick gander at it and think fuck this let’s just charge them for not collaborating for last 4 years it’s a 20m fine

 

[Maldeika]

Yes, that all may very well be so, and thanks for your feedback.

I started this to counter the idea (not from you) that City must have cheated somehow to have income higher than United. A stupid, simplistic argument that shows little understanding of the commercial world. You have shown the many reasons why Bayern could have a commercial/broadcast revenue % higher than some other clubs.

I think we can agree that there are many reasons at the moment why City's % should be in the same ballpark as United's, as it is, and that as City's broadcast income is higher, then you would expect the commercial income to be higher too.

That was really my point.

Your English is excellent, by the way, you studied in England?

Thank you, but my English could be by far better. I could express myself far better and I see a lot of mistakes after I sent my posts. I just like the language.

Especially the advertising market or the market with commercial income does not just depend on your success on the pitch - that is actually what your broadcast income is based on. There is many other factors influencing that.

It is like with single sportsmen. Same success - but some are more attractive to the advertisement market than others. Abu Dhabi is a big advantage for you in many aspects - in other aspects it is a big disadvantage, too.

In Germany it is far harder for the clubs (the ones that aren't really connected to 50+1) like Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Red Bull to get commercial revenue that is not connected to their main sponsor/owner either. If you think about the clubs your first imagination is Bayer, Volkswagen or the lemonade - not the one thing you want to advertise with. Ok, added to it that this clubs aren't very popular in Germany either where the "cleanness" and "fan based" are seen very important and strict from a big part of the population.

 

[BringBackSwales]

Yeah, prior to Enron and therefore the Sarbanes Oxley act coming in, auditors were largely self regulated, and often did bits of consultancy work for these large Corporate companies

In fact the audit work that they were doing was paying substantially less than the consultancy work they were being offered by the same company

Sarbanes Oxley is a comply or die approach, which has incredible fines for non-compliance

I'd be amazed if CFG aren't tied into complying with Sarbanes Oxley

I thought Sox was US entities only? And other countries that adopted similar like Japan, but not UK?

 

[WRicko]

They are at market value. Why shouldn't they be? It is independent companies with a minor share. Companies that do not have the single owner but are traded on the stock market. Their shareholders (a lot for sure no Bayern fans) for sure do not want to benefit the dividend shares of other companies. It just would not make any sense if it was different. You do not spend money as a business for charity or if somebody else would benefit...

And the main important or difference probably is that the partner and the club match together perfectly what e.g. would not be if (as an extreme example) bavarian brewer Paulaner would advertise with e.g. Manchester City or Dortmund.

Siemens e.g. has their headquarters exactly there where the cafe is in which the club was founded 120 years ago.

I know that Bayern for sure is an outlier in this - but you really can explain why they are. It has a lot to do with German economy and the structure of it. We still have a lot of manufacturers - many are top dogs in the World market, too.

The biggest German insurance company - Bayern sponsor. (head quarters Munich!)
One of the big German car manufacturers (or in the world) - Audi (a branch of Volkswagen) - Bayern sponsor (BMW tried to take over 2 or 3 years ago, but that did not work - now they took over the car sponsorship of Real!)
The biggest German telekommunication company - Telekom Bayern sponsor
The biggest German software company - SAP Bayern sponsor
Paulaner with the whole Schörghuber group behind is not the biggest brewery in Germany but I am pretty sure in Bavaria or Munich.
I could go on with that list. What Bayern for sure was smart in in the past decades was connecting to German politics and economy. And the rise from Bavaria itself from a farmer state to the biggest economical power state in Germany for sure helped with that, too. The companies very often have their headquarters or important branches in Bavaria (or atleast in Southern Germany) - not just Germany as a whole.

In a special way the FC Bayern benefits from being that top dog in Germany - not to only be one of the big dogs somewhere else. Right now not even the German national team really seems to be a big rival for the contracts as it was some years ago when e.g. in markets with two big contenders the rival that did not have a contract with the German FA tried to get one with Bayern the season before the World Cup to advertise with some German national team players for the World Cup...

I don’t think city fans think anything is up with Bayern or other sponsorships or at least not seriously so and all of what to say is true. It’s also true that it makes sense for example Etihad to pay more to sponsor City than other clubs be it due similar synergies as with Bayern and there sponsors. That being said there is an assumption that city sponsors are related or at least acting as related parties and over paying yet there is less crossover (no common share ownership involved in Etihad etc and City) however there is with Bayern and it’s key sponsors yet it’s not even questioned in the media or elsewhere and I don’t believe but correct me if I am wrong declared as such or been valued by anyone UEFA etc to check it’s fair value. I think the same would apply to stoke bet 365 Leicester King Power etc

 

[Dubai Blue]

I thought Sox was US entities only? And other countries that adopted similar like Japan, but not UK?

It will be like the EU's GDPR in that it applies to any foreign subsidiaries and foreign organisations that do any business linked to the US

 

[Tb1981]

As far as I understand it, City's position both to UEFA/CAS and the PL is that the documents they're asking to be produced, that haven't been produced, don't actually exist.

In terms of CAS testing the witness statements, they said quite clearly that UEFA did not produce any evidence nor witnesses who contradicted the City witnesses, and furthermore it was unlikely that City's witnesses had lied. Their standing as professionals is I believe taken into account when deciding whether they are to be believed or not.

The problem I have with the whole thing is the fact that it’s very personal.
There is a clear agenda to get us’ by UEFA and the premier league.
UEFA managed to both charge us and find us guilty of offences that they could provide zero evidence to prove and were also time barred by their own rules!
Ask yourself how a competent person/people can get to that point only to be then told they have no case.
Add also inexplicably one of the three cas judges also found against us
Football stinks from top to bottom!!!

 

[toutmaster]

I am on the same page, certainly in terms of a high burden of proof, but I don't think it is as simplistic as just wanting to taint the brand, which they are happy to throw in to the mix at this stage?

They are accusing various auditors and sponsors of also being complicit in fraud.

That's opening up battle lines on so many fronts, aside from City and our own reputational damage.

I am maybe crediting someone at the Premier League with a modicum of legal intelligence, but they have left an open goal for BDO, Etihad and others to go after their own pound of flesh if we are cleared?

I get that Tolm but BDO have do have a past record of messing up

BDO faces FRC investigation over audit of collapsed construction firm

The Financial Reporting Council is opening an investigation into the challenger company's audit of collapse building firm NMCN.

www.cityam.com

BDO auditor fired for altering files earmarked for inspection

Accountant found to have made changes after UK regulator told the firm it would be reviewing a public sector audit

www.ft.com

BDO International faces audit negligence accusation

By Pascal Fletcher

www.reuters.com

SEC.gov | SEC Charges BDO and Five Partners in Connection With False and Misleading Audit Opinions

www.sec.gov

BDO may have to bail out sister firm in Spain after €126.8m penalty

Spain’s highest civil court found BDO, among others, guilty of falsifying accounts of fishing firm Pescanova

www.theguardian.com

BDO pays $3.5-million fine over audit of fraudulent mutual funds

The fine stems from BDO’s auditing of mutual funds offered by Crystal Wealth Management Systems Ltd., a Burlington, Ont.-based investment company that was later found by the OSC to have overstated the value of its assets

www.theglobeandmail.com

FRC launches probe of BDO over NMCN audit

The Financial Reporting Council announced the launch of an investigation into BDO in relation to its audit of U.K. construction and engineering company NMCN, which filed for administration earlier this month.

www.complianceweek.com

 

[halfcenturyup]

Read from 274-285 of the CAS findings

I meant the bolded, and now additionally underlined, part:

People are reading too much into the CAS judgment. For 1 it’s in accord with Swiss Law and 2 it, ad it’s something I keep repeating UEFA didn’t pursue to the end the fact that some documents were never disclosed they in effect gave up on that approach had they focused on that it’s highly likely that CAS would have come to the same conclusion as UEFA.

 

[kaz7]

The problem I have with the whole thing is the fact that it’s very personal.
There is a clear agenda to get us’ by UEFA and the premier league.
UEFA managed to both charge us and find us guilty of offences that they could provide zero evidence to prove and were also time barred by their own rules!
Ask yourself how a competent person/people can get to that point only to be then told they have no case.
Add also inexplicably one of the three cas judges also found against us
Football stinks from top to bottom!!!

The cas one who voted against us was the uefa picked one

 

[bluenova]

He is their fucking ring leader . The one who was busy mouthing off “sports washing, state owned, financial doping ,,etc every time he got the airwave. Fucking lying **** and the one who started this crusade against city since the take over .

Isn't he simply a hypocrite?

When he was at Arsenal, he spun the narrative that they were punching above their weight, similar to the nonsense from Klopp now. But he was always intelligent enough to know exactly what his situation was - the "woe is me" was just part of the game. City were direct competition, and knowing that as the fourth richest club he was going to end up fourth most years, he needed to go on the attack to make himself look good.

Now he's not in competition with us, he doesn't need to spin that yarn.

 

[Tb1981]

The cas one who voted against us was the uefa picked one

Should still have come to the same conclusion as his peers though

 

[BringBackSwales]

It will be like the EU's GDPR in that it applies to any foreign subsidiaries and foreign organisations that do any business linked to the US

No, GDPR and Sarbanes Oxley (SOX) are entirely different things. All UK companies absolutely need to adhere to GDPR (around data protection) but not Sarbanes Oxley (which is US federal law around accounting and business controls). As we are not a US entity we are not bound by the requirements of SOX.

 

[MillisleBlue]

AVIAMC

 

[kaz7]

Should still have come to the same conclusion as his peers though

As if he would , ha

 

[bluenova]

I don’t think city fans think anything is up with Bayern or other sponsorships or at least not seriously so and all of what to say is true. It’s also true that it makes sense for example Etihad to pay more to sponsor City than other clubs be it due similar synergies as with Bayern and there sponsors. That being said there is an assumption that city sponsors are related or at least acting as related parties and over paying yet there is less crossover (no common share ownership involved in Etihad etc and City) however there is with Bayern and it’s key sponsors yet it’s not even questioned in the media or elsewhere and I don’t believe but correct me if I am wrong declared as such or been valued by anyone UEFA etc to check it’s fair value. I think the same would apply to stoke bet 365 Leicester King Power etc

It's not a coincidence that Bayern have for years had the highest sponsorship income in football.

Quite astonishing that they were one of the chief complainers about our owner funding.