PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[PistonBlue]

He reminds me of Stanley Unwin, just not as funny or intelligent.

SU was great, and weirdly enough I've been listening to the Small Faces a lot recently.

 

[Blumooniac]

SU was great, and weirdly enough I've been listening to the Small Faces a lot recently.

Quintessential English eccentric.

 

[Prophet of Doom]

You don't think City have already been offered that plea bargain?

We have accused them of grand scale phishing, which is why we continue to assert the narrative "clear and obvious"

We brokered a pinch with Platini and Uefa, because we didn't want to harm the business at that time.

These Premier League accusations/charges threaten the very existence of the Club and are so much more serious, possibly threaten jail time for some individuals.

We have spent four years playing legal footsie when all we had to do was take another pinch?

The Premier League wanted to keep this all in-house and yet we preferred to have our day before an independent panel.

That should tell us this isn't a zero sum game, the Club want to clear our name once and for all.

I have to trust you don't gamble a £4bn asset on the premise we bet it all on black.

Literally nothing has changed, as far as I’m aware. The club remain confident they’ll be cleared of the most serious charges, so that’ll do for me. Some people are convinced it’ll be a stitch-up, but I’d like to believe the panel will be impartial. Little point in stressing about hypotheticals at this stage, especially as this is still likely to run for some time.

Exactly !!! Nothing has changed except every week we get stuff posted on here like ‘we have a secret VAR recording’ or ‘95% is off the table’.

What do people expect City to say ? Of course we are going to announce publicly and via chosen outlets that we are very confident. We are hardly going to say we are bang to rights and completely fucked.

The Premier League pushed ahead with charges cause they took advice that there is a very serious case to be heard. Their credibility is on the line.

There is a huge risk with this to City no matter how strong our evidence is.

People should be careful not to get carried away. Everybody was giddy about a secret VAR recording a couple of weeks ago - never to be heard of again.

There are some fantastic legal experts on this thread dissecting the charges and potential risks - they are the people to listen to.

 

[terraloon]

Isn't tax evasion a criminal offence?

That depends if HMRC go to the courts.

HMRC will be looking for voluntary disclosure if that’s not achieved they will almost certainly through investigation try and negotiate a settlement. Yes it’s possible that criminal proceedings can be a route but unlikely in respect of this type of issue

 

[TheKippaxM14Blue]

Isn't tax evasion a criminal offence?

Probably more Tax avoidance

 

[Centurions]

The entire system was accessed, so that wouldn’t add up.

You're confusing two separate incidents which may explain some of your posts ;)

They accessed the Scout7(?) database through someones log in details. Rui Pinto hacked our email servers, most probably by someone not paying attention and clicking on a link they shouldn't have.

 

[terraloon]

You don't think City have already been offered that plea bargain?

We have accused them of grand scale phishing, which is why we continue to assert the narrative "clear and obvious"

We brokered a pinch with Platini and Uefa, because we didn't want to harm the business at that time.

These Premier League accusations/charges threaten the very existence of the Club and are so much more serious, possibly threaten jail time for some individuals.

We have spent four years playing legal footsie when all we had to do was take another pinch?

The Premier League wanted to keep this all in-house and yet we preferred to have our day before an independent panel.

That should tell us this isn't a zero sum game, the Club want to clear our name once and for all.

I have to trust you don't gamble a £4bn asset on the premise we bet it all on black.

I very very much doubt that any sort of plea bargaining has taken place that’s just not how it works.

Had City in effect made a voluntary disclosure saying something like ” We have uncovered all these issues . Sorry “ then it would or could have been dealt with behind closed doors but that’s not what has happened.The PL as far as I can see have been completely open about an investigation taking place the court ruling was more about the reason for and outcome of arbitration which they and City wanted to keep out of the public domain

I think you are being over dramatic when you talk about jail time simply because despite from a PL rule book compliance standpoint I can’t see that any of the charges are suggesting that City have broken any Laws.

 

[BAB.DAB]

Exactly !!! Nothing has changed except every week we get stuff posted on here like ‘we have a secret VAR recording’ or ‘95% is off the table’.

What do people expect City to say ? Of course we are going to announce publicly and via chosen outlets that we are very confident. We are hardly going to say we are bang to rights and completely fucked.

The Premier League pushed ahead with charges cause they took advice that there is a very serious case to be heard. Their credibility is on the line.

There is a huge risk with this to City no matter how strong our evidence is.

People should be careful not to get carried away. Everybody was giddy about a secret VAR recording a couple of weeks ago - never to be heard of again.

There are some fantastic legal experts on this thread dissecting the charges and potential risks - they are the people to listen to.

Fantastic legal experts, who don't have the case files. So can only speculatile the possible outcome.
Like the Premier league, the club has been working on this for 4 years.
It does seem that anyone who posts on here, with good links to club, you don't value their opinion.

 

[terraloon]

tax avoidance is ok and completely different to tax evasion

 

[Centurions]

I very very much doubt that any sort of plea bargaining has taken place that’s just not how it works.

Had City in effect made a voluntary disclosure saying something like ” We have uncovered all these issues . Sorry “ then it would or could have been dealt with behind closed doors but that’s not what has happened.The PL as far as I can see have been completely open about an investigation taking place the court ruling was more about the reason for and outcome of arbitration which they and City wanted to keep out of the public domain

I think you are being over dramatic when you talk about jail time simply because despite from a PL rule book compliance standpoint I can’t see that any of the charges are suggesting that City have broken any Laws.

That's exactly how it works bud, the PL didn't want to drag it out this long no matter what the tin foil hat wearing brigade think. The court decided that it was in the public interest to announce an investigation was underway, I don't think the PL have ever confirmed it before that time (or at least confirmed it was ongoing still).

 

[Cityfan]

Tax evasion is only a crime, of you're evading tax. As City are being accused of hiding losses I'm not to sure that there are likely to be too many taxes evaded.

 

[Otamendi's Beard]

I think it's worth mentioning that nobody at the club (outside of the legal team & senior figures at the very, very top) have a clue about the status of the charges.

All we know outside of that is that they've told everyone to be confident.

Lord Pannick and his crew are the only ones in the know and they won't be sharing anything with anyone. Until the time is right that is.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I very very much doubt that any sort of plea bargaining has taken place that’s just not how it works.

Had City in effect made a voluntary disclosure saying something like ” We have uncovered all these issues . Sorry “ then it would or could have been dealt with behind closed doors but that’s not what has happened.The PL as far as I can see have been completely open about an investigation taking place the court ruling was more about the reason for and outcome of arbitration which they and City wanted to keep out of the public domain

I think you are being over dramatic when you talk about jail time simply because despite from a PL rule book compliance standpoint I can’t see that any of the charges are suggesting that City have broken any Laws.

Are you a lawyer?

Edit: That may have sounded condescending. It wasn't the intention. It's just every legal expert on here says that is exactly what they are alleging with their list of breaches.

 

[Plays By Sense Of Smell]

The judicial panel is appointed as per the attachments as per rules W.20, W.21 and W.26.

The appointed panel members have to sign an impartiality agreement and I believe as the Respondent to the charges we have 48 hours to raise any objections to the proposed panel members.

Assuming the appointed panel members abide by the impartiality conditions then this should not be an issue.

What's the 'or else' clause look like?

 

[halfcenturyup]

Tax evasion is only a crime, of you're evading tax. As City are being accused of hiding losses I'm not to sure that there are likely to be too many taxes evaded.

I was thinking more of our Chelsea friend who said they settled an image rights issue out of court. It just seemed to me he was saying Chelsea had been involved with activity that amounted to a criminal offence over a number of years in a way that impacted the annual accounts and presumably the FFP reporting too. Sound familiar?

 

[terraloon]

Are you a lawyer?

Not a lawyer but a background in football administration

 

[halfcenturyup]

Not a lawyer but a background in football administration

Fair enough, see my edited comment though.

 

[Centurions]

here you go.

https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Award_6785___internet__.pdf

contrast para 240 or 253 on the one hand with para 273 on the other.

otherwise fill your boots.

I don't suppose anyone has a searchable link for the CAS decision? I've searched online but can't find any free software to convert it to plain text.

 

[terraloon]

I was thinking more of our Chelsea friend who said they settled an image rights issue out of court. It just seemed to me he was saying Chelsea had been involved with activity that amounted to a criminal offence over a number of years in a way that impacted the annual accounts and presumably the FFP reporting too. Sound familiar?

You mis understand.

HMRC are investigating football clubs all the time. The image rights issue is being looked at as I type. There Is a process that HMRC follow in such matters and that’s a country mile away from going to the courts.
Chelsea and I suspect most clubs haven’t understated the payments , far from it, it’s where the payment ended up.

 

[Centurions]

It would be great to get clarification of that.

I’m sick of hearing other fans say that the whole case was 2 1. And that it’s only because we picked 2 of the panel.

Just to be clear, you are aware that we didn't pick 2 of them? Each picked 1 (UEFA went for their reliable fallback of Ulrich Hans(sp)). We did suggest that we would be happy with a named 3rd who had knowledge of the case I think and UEFA were fine with him, so not 'picking' him in reality.