PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

M18CTID said:
IIRC Tolmie's info was that City consider 95% of the charges to be off the table. I don't think that means 95% of the charges have already been dismissed - just that the club are supremely confident that we won't get done on those.

With that in mind, I would assume that the panel still have to go through the whole process and look at everything before deciding which ones we are guilty/innocent of. You obviously know more about this kind of thing than me Peter but I would guess that it's wishful thinking that most of the charges have already been dismissed. After all, I don't think they've even decided who will be on the panel yet!
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Yes, looking back, Tolmie said at the start of March that 95% of the charges "are considered to be off the table" by City. That's why I used the word "refuted". In other words, City think they have evidence to bat them away easily. Maybe I was thinking of the comment of @LongsightM13, reiterated this morning, that the charges boiled down to a small number of key issues, from which we inferred that non-cooperation was the final one that might still be open.

I'm sure the PL's panel will require us to present all the evidence we have. I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise.
 
petrusha said:
Yes, looking back, Tolmie said at the start of March that 95% of the charges "are considered to be off the table" by City. That's why I used the word "refuted". In other words, City think they have evidence to bat them away easily. Maybe I was thinking of the comment of @LongsightM13, reiterated this morning, that the charges boiled down to a small number of key issues, from which we inferred that non-cooperation was the final one that might still be open.

I'm sure the PL's panel will require us to present all the evidence we have. I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise.
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Sorry mate - just to clarify that I know you weren't suggesting that. It was aimed at the guy who tweeted it plus I think it's best to urge caution to any posters who might think that we're already off the hook. That's not to say I'm not reasonably confident - if the club are then I am, just as they were ahead of the CAS hearing.
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
Think we have frustrated them, now it’s shit or get off the pot for the Premier League.
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I doubt it. They have raised over 100 charges, however much they can be grouped together I would assume at the moment there is a huge amount of work being done by the club and lawyers to build up a defence charge by charge, and that will take months/years. I would be gob smacked if we have made any kind of partial response yet, and equally gobsmacked if we’d leaked such progress to some bloke on Twitter
 
petrusha said:
The first time I saw a posting to the effect that the charges boiled down to a few main aspects and all but one had more or less already been refuted was by @tolmie's hairdoo on here (I stand to be corrected if that's wrong). This guy's wording seems fairly similar to me, while he also includes the formulation "I've heard ...", which I find rather vague and unsatisfactory. It certainly lacks a claim of a source with any authority.

I see from Twitter that City Rabin thinks this guy will be reliable, and maybe he does have a source of his own. My guess, though, would be that tolmie's information is doing the rounds and this guy has just picked up on it.
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Yep, I posted a while back in here that the charges are essentially the same to cover the rolling years of the supposed offences, and 95 per cent can already be dismissed.

The other five per cent is our only focus, but I don't know about this latest claim that it now boils down to one.

Sounds like a Chinese whisper being embellished around?
 
M18CTID said:
IIRC Tolmie's info was that City consider 95% of the charges to be off the table. I don't think that means 95% of the charges have already been dismissed - just that the club are supremely confident that we won't get done on those.

With that in mind, I would assume that the panel still have to go through the whole process and look at everything before deciding which ones we are guilty/innocent of. You obviously know more about this kind of thing than me Peter but I would guess that it's wishful thinking that most of the charges have already been dismissed. After all, I don't think they've even decided who will be on the panel yet!
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Exactly. I took the opportunity yesterday to have a quick look through the Der Spiegel emails again, and, even given that we won at CAS, I'd forgotten how completely damning some of them appear. Unless City's evidence is utterly irrefutable - and we're certainly giving off confident vibes in that regard - then I'd be amazed if the PL were to roll over on the charges front, without a fight, particularly given that the tribunal is able to operate on a balance of probabilities ticket rather than demanding clear cut proof. Also, they would be crucified by the press if they chucked in the towel at the first sign of resistance.
 
BringBackSwales said:
I doubt it. They have raised over 100 charges, however much they can be grouped together I would assume at the moment there is a huge amount of work being done by the club and lawyers to build up a defence charge by charge, and that will take months/years. I would be gob smacked if we have made any kind of partial response yet, and equally gobsmacked if we’d leaked such progress to some bloke on Twitter
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"Some bloke on twitter " That statement was on here a couple of weeks ago. Think it was tolmies hairdo.
 
Kompany & co said:
"Some bloke on twitter " That statement was on here a couple of weeks ago. Think it was tolmies hairdo.
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You think we’ve already responded and provided proof against most of the charges? I can’t remember exactly what the bloke on Twitter said but it was along the lines that most of the charges (all except one?) had already been sorted. Not a chance if that yet, in my opinion. When I hear it from Khaldoon in a year or two I’ll believe it, not when I read it from some bloke on Twitter, which was probably based on what he read in here, in my opinion.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
Yep, I posted a while back in here that the charges are essentially the same to cover the rolling years of the supposed offences, and 95 per cent can already be dismissed.

The other five per cent is our only focus, but I don't know about this latest claim that it now boils down to one.

Sounds like a Chinese whisper being embellished around?
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In the words of Basil Fawlty “you started it”!
 
Exeter Blue I am here said:
Exactly. I took the opportunity yesterday to have a quick look through the Der Spiegel emails again, and, even given that we won at CAS, I'd forgotten how completely damning some of them appear. Unless City's evidence is utterly irrefutable - and we're certainly giving off confident vibes in that regard - then I'd be amazed if the PL were to roll over on the charges front, without a fight, particularly given that the tribunal is able to operate on a balance of probabilities ticket rather than demanding clear cut proof, and they would be crucified by the press if they chucked in the towel at the first sign of resistance
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It's still a very high burden of proof, however.

We shouldn't get too Reds under the bed, with regards the balance of probabilities.

That still requires the tribunal to assert that City's owner, executive board and multitude of sponsors are all complicit and lying.

No Court, certainly not this one, will go down that path without concrete evidence.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
Yep, I posted a while back in here that the charges are essentially the same to cover the rolling years of the supposed offences, and 95 per cent can already be dismissed.

The other five per cent is our only focus, but I don't know about this latest claim that it now boils down to one.

Sounds like a Chinese whisper being embellished around?
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Was your take that 95% can be dismissed because they're just duplicates?

So that 5% left can still be the five or so different main charges?
 
bluenova said:
Was your take that 95% can be dismissed because they're just duplicates?

So that 5% left can still be the five or so different main charges?
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95 per cent of the charges are replicated and can be considered off the table.

The other five per cent/five charges/ are the main focus of our legal counsel.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
It's still a very high burden of proof, however.

We shouldn't get too Reds under the bed, with regards the balance of probabilities.

That still requires the tribunal to assert that City's owner, executive board and multitude of sponsors are all complicit and lying.

No Court, certainly not this one, will go down that path without concrete evidence.
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The charges also imply that City's auditors have committed extensive and ongoing fraud.
 
laserblue said:
The charges also imply that City's auditors have committed extensive and ongoing fraud.
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Lots of implication, lots of entities being accused.

Don't want to die on the auditors hill, though.

It's almost an industry in itself these days, major auditors being fined for not doing their jobs properly.

The only thing which matters is can the tribunal prove we disguised owner investment through sponsors?

I fail to see how they can, barring a sponsor or Sheikh Mansour telling them they did!!
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
Lots of implication, lots of entities being accused.

Don't want to die on the auditors hill, though.

It's almost an industry in itself these days, major auditors being fined for not doing their jobs properly.

The only thing which matters is can the tribunal prove we disguised owner investment through sponsors?

I fail to see how they can, barring a sponsor or Sheikh Mansour telling them they did!!
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Just had a thought...imagine you own a multi-million pound company and the Prem decide you're the bad guys.

The law suit from said company for defamation could destroy the Prem....maybe that's the end game to allow a Super League to rise from the ashes?
 
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