United Thread - 2023/24

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

There doesn’t seem to be much focus on Ten Hag by the media after yesterdays result. It’s either blame VAR or blame the Glazers, their away form is terrible and the way they are playing this could also creep into their home form which was good last season.

I don’t see any improvement from their last two managers, just another merry go round of signings and getting rid of players the new manager doesn’t want. Martial started yesterday which shows how bad they are, numerous managers have wanted rid but they can’t find anyone to take him off their hands.

The defending for the 2nd goal was horrific, Rice had time to trap it think and then get a shot away.

Ten Hag must have fires to put out in that squad with what’s gone with Sancho and how Maguire is kicking his heels on the bench. There must be other rumblings in there that we don’t know about yet which will come to light. This group of players downed tools to get Solksjaer and Mourinho sacked. They will do it again to this manager.

 

[KentBlue]

JFE...Oh, how we laughed!

 

[waspish]

Arsenal fans cheering when Maguire came on was so funny

 

[BigJoe#1]

They all look like either pimps, drug addicts or street gangstas from Central American country.

I've always said this..... not that I am in anyway pretty but all the United players are downright ugly compared to the City lads.

 

[chris85mcfc]

So were Liverpool. A decent manager and 3 good players and they won the league.

Assuming you mean Alisson, Van Dijk and Salah; they were all signed around 2017 and have one league title between them.

Those 3 have only finished in the top 2, 3 times out of the 6 seasons they've been at the club, so haven't really been a long-term threat.

A different team seems to have a go each season, but falls by the wayside, which is largely because we are the best run club in the world.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Think Susie may have been round Rachel's watching the footie yesterday.

Is scissoring a reverse hand job?

 

[SebastianBlue]

I don’t think that last point is right, save that the rot can ultimately be dated to the Rock of Gibraltar fiasco.

in his last season GPC won the title by a distance with more or less the same team that would struggle to make seventh a year later. That in itself is evidence that he was the glue that held everything together. I would argue that the rags post Ferguson haven’t under achieved, but they massively over achieved with GPC at the helm.

Since he has gone, that which he held together has started to unravel. We lose count of the number of good players who have gone there, turned to shit, left and then rediscovered their ability elsewhere. Sancho is probably just the latest in a long line. Even with VAR they do not get the protection from referees they once did.

The ultimate problem it seems to me is the extent to which the current board is in complete thrall to United’s reputation. They sneered at us for buying success, now they are buying failure. They sneered at Chelsea for the rate they went through managers but they are now on their fifth since the GPC (not including the times they gave it Giggsy till the end of the season) and many are calling for him to go. They sneered at Liverpool for clinging to their history, now it is all they have left.

United have pandered to what their fans have wanted. They wanted a new manager? They got one. They wanted a superstar striker? They got one. They wanted to get one over on City in the transfer market? They got one.

They have done none of the things that club needs. Have they invested in the ground or the training facilities? No. Have they invested in their youth section or their academy? No. Anything that requires major capital investment for long term reward they have steered away from in favour of short term revenue gains. The Glazers are complicit in appeasing their supporter base, because keeping their support sweet is what keeps them spending money, which leaves the Glazers able to keep milking the cash cow, rather than doing what the club needs, and that is what is ultimately responsible for their decline.

On that, the buck stops with them.

So… we agree, then?

 

[Kippax77]

There doesn’t seem to be much focus on Ten Hag by the media after yesterdays result. It’s either blame VAR or blame the Glazers, their away form is terrible and the way they are playing this could also creep into their home form which was good last season.

I don’t see any improvement from their last two managers, just another merry go round of signings and getting rid of players the new manager doesn’t want. Martial started yesterday which shows how bad they are, numerous managers have wanted rid but they can’t find anyone to take him off their hands.

The defending for the 2nd goal was horrific, Rice had time to trap it think and then get a shot away.

Ten Hag must have fires to put out in that squad with what’s gone with Sancho and how Maguire is kicking his heels on the bench. There must be other rumblings in there that we don’t know about yet which will come to light. This group of players downed tools to get Solksjaer and Mourinho sacked. They will do it again to this manager.

1 point out of 30 away from home against top 9 clubs.
The media would make sure that any other manager with this record would be receiving their P45s

 

[Gingers Dad]

I don't think so. He appears ok to me. He's basically called a player out in public, which is what Pep has done previously.

Totally different circumstances. Pep is a serial winner at City over 7 years. Absolutely nothing for him to gain personally by expressing his disappointment in an individual. Compared to Ten Hag he's earned the right. Ten Hag has done nothing in football in comparison to Pep. He's blamed everyone apart from himself. Outing Sancho is a classic Mourinho tactic

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

1 point out of 30 away from home against top 9 clubs.
The media would make sure that any other manager with this record would be receiving their P45s

It’s shocking the silence on how vulnerable they are away from the swamp. Their media lackeys will keep him safe for a while as they think he’s making progress with a league cup and finishing 3rd. They should be kicking on now and looking to be in the title race, Mancini did it within two years. Pellegrini landed one in his first season. I don’t see them coming anywhere near.

 

[Gingers Dad]

I've always said this..... not that I am in anyway pretty but all the United players are downright ugly compared to the City lads.

It's the blue shirt that does it. Remember how handsome Carlos Tevez turned overnight in July 2009

 

[decmancity]

It's their recruitment

Maguire, Sancho and Antony cost them about quarter of billion. You can't complain about lack of backing when you've spunked s quarter of a billion on those 3.

One is a meme, one seems to be a lazy headcase thats now publicly arguing with the manager on twitter. And the last one is a football freestyler that contributes nothing but scores a good strike every 15 or 20 games. Like I said yesterday, if you want a player to contribute nothing except 2 screamers a season, give Andros Townsend a bell.

Fantastic recruitment there.

Maguire wanted 10m to go, why not just pay it and get rid and get a decent CB in, instead they are stuck with him and had to go and get JFE on a free to fill the gaps.

The list of failures is quite something. Lukaku, DiMaria, Sanchez, Pogba, Fred, Maguire, Antony, Mkhitayaran, Van De Beek, Depay, Kagawa and Bailly just off the top of my head.

The current squad probably cost north of 700m and like Chelsea it looks completely bang average.

 

[Blue Til Death]

Glazers fault again zzzzzzzzzzzz

Neville having a melt down again.

Told the owners spent the second most after Chelsea. Didn’t want to hear that.

Glazers playing a game and it’s affecting the tea lady so that why they players are no good on the pitch!

FFP is now a problem. Reap what you sow!

It seems to me that everyone is hiding behind the owners and not looking at their own performance on and off the pitch.

It’s glorious!!

Thought they were the better team second half. Games decided now in extra time.

I didn’t hear a peep from this **** or the other 6 billion cunts, when the rags won the following trophies with the Glazers at the helm…

5 x PL Titles
4 x League Cups
1x Champions League win plus two losing finals
1 x FA Cup win
1 x UEFA Cup

Whose fault was that lot? Fuckin entitled mard arse cunts… Fuckin hate them with every cell…

 

[SebastianBlue]

This is what I don’t get about what @SebastianBlue (who is a fucking brilliant poster btw) is saying. How can the people at the top of an organisation, with executive control, and huge resources at their disposal, not be ultimately be responsible for the direction of that organisation over a twenty year period? To say they had no power to address these things simply cannot be right given the enduring revenue of that organisation, which would have given them the means and the time to make those difficult choices.

Or putting it this way, I reckon there are sales managers on £60k who could genuinely do a better job at running that club (as would any competent person of reasonable insight and intelligence) such is their ineptitude. They really are that bad.

Second generations of self-made men are often ineffectual and decadent. They don’t have the hunger, desire or street-smart of the parent that gave them that leg up in the first place. That is what we are dealing with here.

One only has to look at the state of that stadium, in actual and relative terms to when they took over the club, to realise how much they are completely out of their depth.

On that basis, and on the basis that any competent person could do a better job, the argument they were powerless to substantively tackle the issues at the club holds no water.

It’s akin to saying Peter Swales was powerless to stop our decline over the course of his tenure.

The buck, as you say, stopped with him.

I know, from a very good source, why he resigned, which was that the Glazers, via Woodward, kiboshed his plan to bring Ronaldo back in the summer of 2013, telling him he could only spend £30m net. My theory is that Moyes was his response to that, on the lines of "If you want someone to manage on a budget, then here you are".

The same source, when I asked what he (Ferguson) thought of the Glazers, was succinct. "He hates them" was the response.

It wouldn't surprise me therefore if he stuck around precisely with the intent of sabotaging their ownership and trying to get them out. Fortunately he's failed in that so far, although we'll see what tomorrow brings when the NYSE opens again after the Labor Day holiday.

PB’s post is part of what I have been expounding about over many posts.

The Glazers did not have the power many people believe they did within the club. Nor did they have the aims people are ascribing to them.

United was never a means of attaining football glory. It was a cash cow from the off and they have always treated it that way, just managing to navigate the iron fisted Ferguson influence that began before they acquired the club. They had no intention of progressing the club past the station it had attained when they came in, nor could they stop the rot within the last 20 years if they actually wanted to do so. That dysfunction was largely why they saw the club as a value extraction opportunity in the first place, which has been their family’s business for generations. Once the organisation became too difficult to drain for cash flow—as it is becoming now—they would sell it off for a tidy profit and move on. This is nothing new for their business; they have done this many times across the US (have look in to their enterprises there, it is actually quite interesting).

I have said many times that I think some of the blame falls on them. But most of it, for me, falls squarely on the “club legend” that his own legacy before the interests of the club. And the fans that back him to the hilt, either too naive or too stupid (or both) to see the coming degradation because of their beloved leader’s many shortcomings.

Until he is gone, the club will be firmly in his shadow, rotting away, as new owners will face the same dysfunction as the old ones.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Ed Woodward was an investment banker, employed by the Glazers prior to the take over. He was running the club from 2012 - 2022. All of the players that don't want to leave the club, are a direct result of the bumper contracts that Ed Woodward gave them. Not only do they not want to leave, no other clubs can match their wages. They were only able to ship out Mata, Jones, De Gea, Pogba and Lingard because their contracts had expired. They've still got Van De Beek, Maguire, Martial, Bailly and McTominay that won't leave. If you combined all of the salaries of these deadwood (or Ed Wood) players, you'd easily be looking at 100m per season.

That's money that should be invested into the squad on an annual basis. Instead of dipping into all of the money made from fans & sponsorship. On paper, they should be a very profitable club. They made a profit of 1.5bn over the the term of Glazer ownership, but they squandered it on debt repayments, and poor decisions on player recruitment. They also lined their own pockets taking dividends out of these profits.

This rumour that they value the club at double what they were offered, only highlights how out of touch from reality they really are. The Glazer siblings are like an episode of succession. None of them have any talent or business acumen, they are squabbling with each other, trying to milk dry the investments that their father made for them. Not one of them is brave enough to come out and make a statement or have any sort of dialogue with the fans. It's all middle men and consultants.

And riddle me this. If you have an asset that is valued at 5bn. And you run it into the ground for a further 2 years, not investing or improving the value. Why would you think it could be worth 10bn in 2025???
What do they know that everybody else doesn't?

See my recent post.

Again, people are ascribing intent to the Glazers that never existed.

The “mismanagement” you and I have described was always the plan.

 

[Asa's left peg]

In the old days, footballers knew nothing about money (mostly) and money men knew feck all about football and 'never the twain shall meet', so to speak.
Things have changed so much and there are 2 or 3 slightly differing models now, but the rags are stuck back in the old days.
Khaldoon, when he was appointed, said that there was a 10 year plan, then about year 8 , I think, he began to talk about a 20 year plan. If the plan is good and working it can evolve, as we have seen.
For this to work, you have to have a plan to start with - and they still don't seem to have one or understand!

 

[BigJoe#1]

As much as I don’t really like him and the change of owners can be argued to be due to him, the lack of succession cannot.

The owners needed to sort that, they didn’t.

Ferguson left at a time he knew the tide was changing. He was probably one RVP signing away (if we had got him instead of them), of being in our rear view mirror.

Lucky for him they got him and he could leave as champions.

It was always going to be a tough job for United to replace him as he had been there so long and had so much control.

The choice of just getting Moyes and hoping he would do the same job was flawed and they have not caught up since.

Now Tan Hag is the new saviour and I feel he had a decent enough first season.

However, I’m a bit unsure of the current plan. They seem to want to play a brand of football not that dissimilar to ourselves. Assuming based on the theory City are a great team let’s play like them. However, they cannot really do it. All games seem like they play like Ole had them, defend deep and counter or they have the ball more and concede good chances.

They have a handful of decent players, that can help them win some games. But ultimately all their games there is a decent case for them losing/ drawing in all.

The FFP rules are beginning to hurt them, whilst we 115 charges pending aside seem to be managing with ease.

Bit of a rant but the owners are to blame for everything at United, but they are on for record revenues whilst ensuring they are in the box seat for future commercial opportunities. Whilst I believe they would like them to win the league, their operation is based around CL participation.

This is a minimum of 5-6 years away for them.... minimum. What they fail to realise is that to build successfully you need to start at the bottom and swallow the bitter pill of a barren spell where you need to put in place the stabilizing blocks and then build up.
To buy the worlds greatest goal scorer or creative midfielder is pointless absolutely pointless.... still at least we can look on like proper rubber neckers c/w popcorn and enjoy.

 

[laserblue]

 

[Blue Til Death]

Sancho has come out with a statement, After the utd manager outed him about not training hard enough #

View attachment 92519

Sancho days at Utd are over

Let’s be honest, they never really began, he’s be a complete disaster from day 1

 

[wolviedinho]

Give it Giggs til he is locked up again.

Ten is doing ok. He is not helped by how United conduct their business. So many players have fallen away since joining the self proclaimed biggest club. The only people helping him are the glazers in supply him with huge transfer funds.

Recruiting & training players is the main problem. Far too much distraction at that club whereas pep can just focus mainly on training. Well when he is not telling the cartel to do one.

How do you fix a problem like united? Copying Liverpool didn’t work, coping city ain’t working. Maybe a spell or two in the lower divisions might reset the club.

They will never be the Manchester United of the 90s. Far too much competition now so unless the competition crumble or get threatened by ffp then united will stay around 4th-6th/7th.

We need Ten gone after this season.Don’t want him getting too comfortable. Chaos and instability is needed.