How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

hilts said:
Sure sure tunnel vision Labour remain bloke.
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So what's your position? It seems to be that people who saw Brexit as a tunnel with no light at the end of it were wrong even to think that the most stupid self-harming decision in British history might be (democratically) reversed before it was implemented, rather than wait for the disaster to be so obvious that a fifth of leave voters now say they'd have voted to remain (and half of them say they were lied to).

We're you lied to?

(Yes you were. Where's this free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border that was promised?)
 
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blueinsa said:
I love the fact you’re a door knocker who tries to get people to vote your way lol.

Cobblers!
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It's not that difficult. If they voted for Brexit but now might be ready to vote Labour I'll give them the time of day, but I don't waste much time on committed Tory Brexiteers. It took 6 years to persuade you it was a mistake, and I'd rather find out about local issues that can be fixed, than discuss Brexit which can't.
 
Vic said:
It's not that difficult. If they voted for Brexit but now might be ready to vote Labour I'll give them the time of day, but I don't waste much time on committed Tory Brexiteers. It took 6 years to persuade you it was a mistake, and I'd rather find out about local issues that can be fixed, than discuss Brexit which can't.
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I'm not sure he even understands what canvassing is.

Obviously you can only "sell a ticket" to someone who is at worst undecided.

Does he want you to use "pressure selling"?

Which ironically he fell for from Johnson and Farage.
 
Vic said:
So what's your position? It seems to be that people who saw Brexit as a tunnel with no light at the end of it were wrong even to think that the most stupid self-harming decision in British history might be (democratically) reversed before it was implemented, rather than wait for the disaster to be so obvious that a fifth of leave voters now say they'd have voted to remain (and half of them say they were lied to).

We're you lied to?

(Yes you were. Where's this free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border that was promised?)
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If so many now regret the decision you would hope Starmer would be a lot more outspoken on the subject. He is your guy so your stance on him is frankly strange. But you're Labour so a pig with a red rosette would get your support.

The lied to angle has been done to death over the years and I'm not in the habit of repeating things especially to someone like you. You have mentioned Iceland to Russia thousands of times, how you haven't bored yourself with it by now is really odd.

You are Labour and you are pro EU and you spend your time promoting that. There is no debating with you, if you can't argue a point you just ignore it or deflect on to something else.

The campaign the referendum and the way the tories have dealt with it has gone, move on. If we had a proper democracy in this country brexit wouldn't have gone like this, in fact it wouldn't have happened at all.

So anyone who has voted or will vote Tory or Labour can I just say well done.

Some need to look a bit closer to home. Or you could just repeat yourself for the next decade.

Anyhow until something meaningful happens this seems like a total waste of everyone's time.
 
Brexit has 'done Britain down'.

Mere words are neither here nor there. If untrue they can easily be rebutted. We have cast our international standing and trade arrangements away for a delusional mirage, which anyone with the wits of a sheep should have recognised as such.

That's quite apart from having one of the most corrupt and utterly useless governments in all our history - which when you think about it, is some fucking achievement. They have out Swaled Swales so to speak. The last time we had such a clueless and deluded government, King Billy came over from Holland to sort it.
 
hilts said:
If so many now regret the decision you would hope Starmer would be a lot more outspoken on the subject. He is your guy so your stance on him is frankly strange. But you're Labour so a pig with a red rosette would get your support.

The lied to angle has been done to death over the years and I'm not in the habit of repeating things especially to someone like you. You have mentioned Iceland to Russia thousands of times, how you haven't bored yourself with it by now is really odd.

You are Labour and you are pro EU and you spend your time promoting that. There is no debating with you, if you can't argue a point you just ignore it or deflect on to something else.

The campaign the referendum and the way the tories have dealt with it has gone, move on. If we had a proper democracy in this country brexit wouldn't have gone like this, in fact it wouldn't have happened at all.

So anyone who has voted or will vote Tory or Labour can I just say well done.

Some need to look a bit closer to home. Or you could just repeat yourself for the next decade.

Anyhow until something meaningful happens this seems like a total waste of everyone's time.
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I asked one question, "what's your position?" and I'm still not sure I know as this post is just presuming to tell me my views.

We've dealt with why Starmer isn't outspoken. I certainly haven't spent time promoting a Rejoin campaign.

As for the FTZ promise, that was simply the most blatant lie of the Leave campaign (the rest was just speculation).

Even the Bloviator accepted it had been an expedient lie. Even Gove wobbled on the No Deal nonsense because of that promise, though he soon fell in with the oven ready crap.
 
Vic said:
As for the FTZ promise, that was simply the most blatant lie of the Leave campaign (the rest was just speculation).
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tbf, if May’s exit proposal had passed with a majority in the Commons then there would have been a FTZ so to characterise it as a lie is applying some mental gymnastics.

That said, that vote should not and cannot provide any excuse for the hard Brexit we ended up with. I would say that was far more contrary to our national interest than the vote to leave itself - not just because of the associated economic damage, but also because it divided the nation further, which was the last thing the country needed.
 
jim tolmies perm said:
As Marr says I think it will be a slow surreptitious reintegration back into the single market
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I think everyone is happy with access to the single market. It's what we have to give up to get that access that will cause a problem. Perhaps after enough thinking (and the older generations like my parents who feel betrayed by the 70's vote) not being around, we will come back to it as a nation. I don't think my generation are as patriotic.

Slow steady change in that direction is okay with me.
 
RabidCity said:
I think everyone is happy with access to the single market. It's what we have to give up to get that access that will cause a problem. Perhaps after enough thinking (and the older generations like my parents who feel betrayed by the 70's vote) not being around, we will come back to it as a nation. I don't think my generation are as patriotic.

Slow steady change in that direction is okay with me.
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What do we have to give up to get access that’s so bad ?
Or put another way what did we gain when we left the single market ?
By the way my parents both regret / regretted ( in my late fathers case)their leave vote quite a while back realising they bought the lies and accepted they should have listened to their children and grandchildren. Not Johnson / Farage/ Daily Mail
 
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