Middle East Conflict

trueblue1972 said:
Whilst i dont agree with many of the isreali governments actions you can also look at that the other way round they have been under constant attack since its creation and have been protecting themselves , have they made mistakes along the way 100% however that doesn't take away from.the route cause.
I've lived there its a shit show from both sides
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They've certainly been provoked and attacked and suffered because of the conflict, but Israel's strategy has been the same for most of the last 40 years and it's not getting them any closer to peace. For the most part they seem fine with that now they have iron dome and can build settlements apart from once every few years when it gets out of their control and something awful happens to civilians on one or both sides.
 
The blue phantom said:
I'd like to think every country could find a way of getting Food, Water and medicine in. This is dehumanising.
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As is taking innocent hostages and murdering people just enjoying themselves. I'm sure that once the hostages are released, food, water and electricity will follow. You can't have it all one way.
 
domalino said:
They've certainly been provoked and attacked and suffered because of the conflict, but Israel's strategy has been the same for most of the last 40 years and it's not getting them any closer to peace. For the most part they seem fine with that now they have iron dome and can build settlements apart from once every few years when it gets out of their control and something awful happens to civilians on one or both sides.
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I came back around 1984 I used to love going to the Palestinian markets and always found them friendly , probably why i feel for the innocents who are going to be killed so much . However even then at times of peace , there were many attacks from extremist that never realy made media over here, Isreal used to push them further back , its got more extreme from Isreals side of late no doubt . I'm not sure if anyone who hasn't lived there can truly undertand the situation.
It came flooding back to me once when I visited Belfast with the Chartered Institute Of Housing , and saw how people lived over there , 20 ft walls in their back garden as the neighbour was a different religion I had no clue people lived like that , different scales I know but I remmber the flashbacks
 
Here we go again, just endless rounds of bloodshed and death

1) The world can not continue to ignore the plight of the Palestinians, a two state solution is essential, or Israel absorbs the Arab population into the state of Israel and everyone has equal rights (and responsibilities)

2) A lot of this is the result of right wing populists appealing to the lowest base, offering quick simplistic solutions to complex problems, much of the Israeli Army have been concentrating on quelling unrest on the West Bank, unrest that has been caused by militant settler groups who have ministers actually in the cabinet

3) I have quite a few Israeli friends and they are absolutely livid with the government and BN in particular

4) If one good thing comes from this it may renew the focus on the problems ignoring them does not work, the Gulf states are as much to blame for this as are the Israelis (and of course HAMAS)

5) Despite the blood curdling rhetoric from the Israeli side, they only go as far as the Americans allow them to, they will flatten a lot of buildings and kill a lot of civilians

6) and because the west tries to ignore the situation it will carry on and on

7) Israel has a number of problems at the moment it's deeply divided between the secular and the religious, so much so that many young secular Israelis are just upping sticks and moving to other countries , they have no desire to live in a semi theocracy either Jewish or Islamic, they just want to live like normal people in the West do
 
trueblue1972 said:
I came back around 1984 I used to love going to the Palestinian markets and always found them friendly , probably why i feel for the innocents who are going to be killed so much . However even then at times of peace , there were many attacks from extremist that never realy made media over here, Isreal used to push them further back , its got more extreme from Isreals side of late no doubt . I'm not sure if anyone who hasn't lived there can truly undertand the situation.
It came flooding back to me once when I visited Belfast with the Chartered Institute Of Housing , and saw how people lived over there , 20 ft walls in their back garden as the neighbour was a different religion I had no clue people lived like that , different scales I know but I remmber the flashbacks
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One of the things missing from this thread is lived experience - living in a war zone makes you realise that the people displaced or maimed as a result couldn't give less of a fuck about moral absolutes. They just want to get through the day fed and watered and alive. Living in central Africa during the DR Congo conflict made me realise that uninformed opinion shouted loudly is the enemy of empathy. You're right - I wonder how much more humane the world would be if people were made to visit Auschwitz and made to visit a UNHCR refugee camp in Lebanon, or in the Central African Republic, or Bangladesh.
 
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has claimed his country's response to the Hamas incursion will "change the Middle East".
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has claimed his country's response to the Hamas incursion will "change the Middle East".
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He has to say that, it's just throwing bones to the more rabid elements

He will go as far as the Americans will allow him to go and no further, and the Americans are pressured by their allies in the Middle East, every civilian death strengthens the hand of Iran (who incidentally control most of Iraq and Syria)

One suspects that Hamas have factored in the response, they don't really care how many civilians die they are just pawns
 
Not sure if covered due to being a fast moving thread, US prepping senators for a protracted battle with political land tangible support.



the question becomes, how does this effect Ukraine.
 
grunge said:
Not sure if covered due to being a fast moving thread, US prepping senators for a protracted battle with political land tangible support.



the question becomes, how does this effect Ukraine.
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The US tends to get squeamish when the civilian bodies start piling up, especially if it's their arms doing the damage, as in the past the Israelis will go as far as the Americans will allow them to

There is lots of empty somewhat blood curdling rhetoric going on, this will just play out like all the other wars between HAMAS and Israel, in the meantime the innocent civilians from both sides are getting hurt
 
Been an interesting read (this thread). Surprised at a lot of the comments, too much "they did it first" for my liking and there's a horrific stench of anti-Semitism from a couple of posters so I'm inflicting a self imposed thread ban on myself as it isn't my fight. Closing comments are, Hamas are utter cunts for doing what they did over the Weekend, it seems they targeted the festival as they knew it was being attended by people from all over the World, how they thought that could help their plight I will never be able to understand, I feel incredibly sorry and helpless for the Palestinians who will be caught up in the retribution that the Israeli Government will be seeking, the whole situation makes me sick, we studied it at School 20 years ago and nothing has changed.
 
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