Middle East Conflict

[BobKowalski]

Sounds reasonable but here is the issue.

Hamas and Hezbollah are not interested in a 2 state solution so who are Israel expected to negotiate with and will Hamas and Hezbollah stop their attacks?

Neither is the the Israeli Govt.

Until both sides recognise that a political solution that guarantees the security and rights of all parties is in everyone’s interests, then this cycle of oppression and violence will continue.

The rest of the world can protest, wring its hands, pick sides etc, but ultimately the Israelis and Palestinians are the ones that have to decide that killing each other isn’t much of a future.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Sounds reasonable but here is the issue.

Hamas and Hezbollah are not interested in a 2 state solution so who are Israel expected to negotiate with and will Hamas and Hezbollah stop their attacks?

Oh, you should have said live in peace with their neighbours immediately. In which case, the answer is nothing at all.

Now, if you are talking longer term there are plenty of things they can do ......

 

[Bradley82]

IDF spokesman was just asked by Kay Burley 8 Times if White Phosphorus was being used. On the 8th time of asking he said "Not that I'm aware of" To which she said "I'll take that as a No"....His response " I'm not sure and its perfectly acceptable use anyway".This is after Surgeons have stated its being used.

I'm fairly certain watching that interview they are using it.

It was white phosphorus. I've seen it fired from mortars and used it in grenade form. It's very distinctive.

 

[Vic]

Israel is surrounded by enemies who want nothing more than to wipe them from the face of the Earth.

That has always been the case.

That was the case before this war started and will be the case long after it’s finished.

What exactly could Israel do that would enable them to live peacefully with its predominately Muslim neighbours?

I’m all ears?

You can't justify "That has always been the case". Do you have any evidence of Arabs (Muslim and Christian) wanting to harm Jews in Palestine (who were largely of Arab descent) before the Zionist movement set out to create a (European) Jewish majority in the area? (Jerusalem itself already may have had a Jewish majority.) Did the "indigenous" Jews actually want the Jews fleeing persecution in Russia and elsewhere to come to Palestine?

https://scholarworks.lib.csusb.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1052&context=history-in-the-making

[I don't want to start another false comparison diversion, but Turkish Cypriots are not all happy with immigration from Turkey itself, as that has made them a minority population in the north of Cyprus, and has made reunification (and membership of the EU) harder.]

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Meanwhile in the West Bank…



When you strip away someone's dignity like this, it’s only ever going to end one way.

Some people are shit. Both Israelis and Palestinians. They are not an example of the whole people.

 

[Scottyboi]

Meanwhile in the West Bank…



When you strip away someone's dignity like this, it’s only ever going to end one way.

Israelis have proper shite sense of humour.

Ukraine treat russian pows better.

 

[blueinsa]

You can't keep saying Hamas, in isolation, aren't interested in a two state solution, when Netanyahu also isn't.

The PLO signed up to a two state solution and recognised the state of Israel. Netanyahu literally marched in the streets to oppose the Oslo accord. And whilst in power he has done everything he can to squash the PLOs influence in Gaza and support Hamas'.

I can say it because all we hear in here is what Israel must do.

We know what they have to do.

What does Hamas and Hezbollah have to do to allow getting around a table worthwhile?

 

[Ducado]

Sounds reasonable but here is the issue.

Hamas and Hezbollah are not interested in a 2 state solution so who are Israel expected to negotiate with and will Hamas and Hezbollah stop their attacks?

Hezbollah don't really have a dog in this fight, they exist at the behest of the iranian government the primary role is to protect and rule over southern Lebanon they are the replacement (albeit more powerful) of Amal who used to rule that area

Look if a just and fair solution was found the sea that they swim in would be very much reduced, they have a political wing and an armed wing, they are closely tied to the Muslim Brotherhood, there is every chance they would just morph into a somewhat radical political party, after all Israel has some government members from some very radical right wing parties

I am not saying that just by saying here's a state get on with it, and everything will be fine, quite the opposite in my opinion the PA has been a disaster there needs to be some proper nation building and Western Standards of accountability. bollocks to the culture argument, with proper funding Palestine would be a force for good and a prosperous peaceful nation living in peace with Israel

 

[Vic]

Sounds reasonable but here is the issue.

Hamas and Hezbollah are not interested in a 2 state solution so who are Israel expected to negotiate with and will Hamas and Hezbollah stop their attacks?

Well done on articulating precisely what Netanyahu has done. "How can I negotiate about a two-state solution with the people I've sponsored in order to prevent a two-state solution?"

 

[Vic]

What difference does it make in Britain?
Are you inferring that they’ll vote conservative instead?
Conservative position is the exact same.

It isn't. A lot of them hate Muslims.

 

[Mon Autre]

I can say it because all we hear in here is what Israel must do.

We know what they have to do.

What does Hamas and Hezbollah have to do to allow getting around a table worthwhile?

Hamas is a terrorist organsiation. There are more reasonable negotiating partners available who should be supported to become the representatives of the palestinian people in negotiations. If it's Israel taking a strategic decision to cut out those negotiating partners and instead allow funding and resource to flow to Hamas then of course it's on them to change that.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I can say it because all we hear in here is what Israel must do.

We know what they have to do.

What does Hamas and Hezbollah have to do to allow getting around a table worthwhile?

They won't do anything, but they are terrorist organisations, they need to be strangled (I was going to say beheaded and then strangled, but I suppose that is impossible) and then made irrelevant. You (ie "one") can't look at parts of this conflict in isolation, there needs to be a coherent and, dare I say, holistic strategy to end this nonsense.

 

[M18CTID]

She must feel very uncomfortable in the current Tory party.

Yep, probably

 

[Norman kneejerk]

Historically the military option has been a winning formula for Israel backed by latest US tech. So to me they're always going to default to that unless something changes that stops it being worthwhile.

So what could that something be? Could it be their opponents are now better armed, Could it be this is such a PR disaster that it becomes untenable for even Biden to support them because of lack of support? Powers of middle East states to influence the US? Change of government in Israel?

Also what has happened to Sunak? Not heard much after his initial proclamations about who he hoped would win.

 

[philiph20]

But it is Israel !......so whats the problem ?

Nothing to see here, lets move on...evil bastards!!!

 

[philiph20]

Historically the military option has been a winning formula for Israel backed by latest US tech. So to me they're always going to default to that unless something changes that stops it being worthwhile.

So what could that something be? Could it be their opponents are now better armed, Could it be this is such a PR disaster that it becomes untenable for even Biden to support them because of lack of support? Powers of middle East states to influence the US? Change of government in Israel?

Also what has happened to Sunak? Not heard much after his initial proclamations about who he hoped would win.

He's probably too busy kissing Bibi's arse .

 

[metalblue]

Some people are shit. Both Israelis and Palestinians. They are not an example of the whole people.

Ordinarily that is very true however Israel is unique in many ways. The education system is divided with a heavy slant to the positives of the Zionist project this diminishes the perception of Arab rights, equally Jews and Arabs are segregated educationally with the Arab curriculum set by the state of Israel. Whilst it doesn’t actively promote hatred nor does it promote balance. This is a good read on some of the issues.

Israeli Education: Denationalizing the Indigenous Palestinian Minority - Politics Today

Israel’s education system is designed to maintain racial domination of one racial group over another, while systematically oppressing them.

politicstoday.org

As the IDF is largely a conscripted army it’s easy to see how their education plays a pivotal role in the behaviour of its soldiers on the ground if one side has been portrayed as unequal throughout your school life.

I’m sure the Palestinian education system in Gaza and the West Bank is equally problematic.

Education won’t win a war but it can prevent it.

 

[mexico1970]

Unfortunately mate religion is an undeniable part of all of this, so much blood has spilt in these lands in the name of religion over the centuries. Bonkers the lot of them.

As the famous song writer said, BONKERS mate :)

 

[domalino]

Sounds reasonable but here is the issue.

Hamas and Hezbollah are not interested in a 2 state solution so who are Israel expected to negotiate with and will Hamas and Hezbollah stop their attacks?

Israel isn’t interested in a 2 state solution.

 

[dublinblue12]

As one of the comments says, they must forget the Internet exists