Middle East Conflict

inbetween said:
The US is right to cause rebellion in Iran because Iran has a dangerous and backward dictatorship. The Iranian people are suppressed and it is questionable whether they support the Iranian regime but they have no choice. In Iran you can essentially be executed in the street for protesting against the Iranian regime.

It's similar to the Palestinians and Hamas, the views of the Palestinian people are likely separated from the lunatics in charge of the asylum. Do the Palestinians want this war with Israel? I seriously doubt it. Do Iranians want war with the US, a country that could flatten Tehran in a heartbeat? I doubt that even more.

The weirdest thing about all of this is many of these countries are actually very pro-western in terms of culture. It's very ordinary for many in these countries to watch western movies and tv shows or eat western food. They clearly want to be aligned to the west but geopolitics and dictatorship holds them back.

It makes complete sense then for the west to try and push these countries closer to alignment. Look at how the UAE and Saudi Arabia are changing, they've achieved nothing after centuries sat in the dark ages and now with western support and alignment they're growing into somewhat more modern and liberal societies. The only thing absent in these countries really is democracy.
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Not sure where to start with answering that. So much to unpack.

So you will be pleased to know I won't bother :)
 
Ducado said:
Sure the US could flatten Tehran, but the Iranians could just as easily block the gulf shipping lanes, what would hurt more?

I don't have a problem with your characterisation of the Iranian Regime but you have to remember they are there because of the interference of the US and British governments in Iranian affairs and hoisting a dictator upon them every bit as bad as the current regime

We all know what the key to unlocking all this, its coming up with a just solution to the the Palestinian problem, it's a festering wound in the Middle East and a rallying point for blood thirty fanatics also this conflict is now threatening normalisation in the region

The Iranian issue will have to be sorted out by the Iranian people anything else will be rejected
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Do you think though that the Iranian people would support a blockade of the Gulf considering 30% of them live in total poverty? I know they'll be shot if they protest but why would they want to inflict war on themselves for the sake of the Palestinians who they share nothing in common with?

The Palestinian issue is entirely separate from this, the Iranians don't care about the Palestinian people. If they did then they'd support the only sensible option which is a two-state solution but that recognises the existence of Israel and they can't do that.

On the Palestinian issue, the Iranian regime only cares about its geopolitical goal which is to completely destroy Israel. Iran as a consequence directly supports Hamas and that's the problem, it's why it makes sense for Israel to try and remove Hamas from the equation.

Either way considering the above, Palestinians and Iranians will continue to suffer.
 
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M18CTID said:
Yep. What I find weird with some of them is that their political beliefs align with White Supremacists and that lot hate Jewish people.
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I think it's Israel they like rather than the Jewish people who live there. The fact that it's a colonial occupation reminds them of the days where a 3rd of the world was pink.
 
inbetween said:
The US is right to cause rebellion in Iran because Iran has a dangerous and backward dictatorship. The Iranian people are suppressed and it is questionable whether they support the Iranian regime but they have no choice. In Iran you can essentially be executed in the street for protesting against the Iranian regime.

It's similar to the Palestinians and Hamas, the views of the Palestinian people are likely separated from the lunatics in charge of the asylum. Do the Palestinians want this war with Israel? I seriously doubt it. Do Iranians want war with the US, a country that could flatten Tehran in a heartbeat? I doubt that even more.

The weirdest thing about all of this is many of these countries are actually very pro-western in terms of culture. It's very ordinary for many in these countries to watch western movies and tv shows or eat western food. They clearly want to be aligned to the west but geopolitics and dictatorship holds them back.

It makes complete sense then for the west to try and push these countries closer to alignment. Look at how the UAE and Saudi Arabia are changing, they've achieved nothing after centuries sat in the dark ages and now with western support and alignment they're growing into somewhat more modern and liberal societies. The only thing absent in these countries really is democracy.
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IMG_3931.png
 
metalblue said:
View attachment 97571
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You would like to think that it was a free and democratic nation full of fluffy bunnies and pink unicorns but the reality it was a repressive regime with the brutal SAVAK secret police abducting and murdering opponents including many democrats, of course this regime was foisted upon the Iranian people by none other than the US and the UK

There was some cultural modernisation but very little political freedom, I am not saying the regime there is a good thing just giving you some context, that silly far right memes don't

Context in history is very important it's often missed in many of the debates we have on here
 
Bluemoon_420 said:
I would say so from my experiences with them. Some Zionists are obviously more extreme than others, but the underlying fact is that Zionism is racist and supremacist ideology.
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When you say zionist, do you mean all 16 million jews on the planet (because for many, zionist is codeword for jew) or just the estimated 10 million+ jews who identify as zionist ?

Did you even think for one minute how offensive your post is to jews ?

Do you know what zionism is ?

I suggest you look it up

There is of course no one single definition of zionism, but these seem to be the commonly accepted ones

The Oxford Living Dictionaries says Zionists believe in “the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel”. The Board of Deputies of British Jews describes Zionism as “the national liberation movement of the Jewish people.” The non-Zionist left-wing Jewish group Jewdas have defined it simply as “the belief that there should be a Jewish state in Israel”.

So according to you, in your words, the underlying fact is people who believe in the above are following a racist and supremacist ideology

And what about the people in the Middle East who are opposed to zionism, i.e. opposed to the existence of any jewish state. Are they non-racist and non-supremacist ? You know, the people whose life mission is to destroy all jews.
 
Ducado said:
You would like to think that it was a free and democratic nation full of fluffy bunnies and pink unicorns but the reality it was a repressive regime with the brutal SAVAK secret police abducting and murdering opponents including many democrats, of course this regime was foisted upon the Iranian people by none other than the US and the UK

There was some cultural modernisation but very little political freedom, I am not saying the regime there is a good thing just giving you some context, that silly far right memes don't

Context in history is very important it's often missed in many of the debates we have on here
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You are stronger than I am, taking this latest nonsense on.
 
The perfect fumble said:
The German perspective....

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Given German's historic role in all this and the guilt they must feel for the Holocaust I understand why he might value Jewish life over Palestinian.
But like a lot of people he seems to think Hamas just appeared out of thin air. They are the result of ongoing Palestinian oppression, that the West didn't care about, or for that matter the regional Arab states.
 
Deadly Hamas fighters that the IDF are defending their homeland from.

Alternate view - I see about a dozen new recruits to HAMAS ranks secured by IDF action

 
robbieh said:
Given German's historic role in all this and the guilt they must feel for the Holocaust I understand why he might value Jewish life over Palestinian.
But like a lot of people he seems to think Hamas just appeared out of thin air. They are the result of ongoing Palestinian oppression, that the West didn't care about, or for that matter the regional Arab states.
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Firstly, Germans wouldn't stress the 'guilt' for horrors of their ancestors (how can I be guilty today?) but the responsibility for the presence and the future.

If the bold part - such a stupid generalization, pouring more oil into the fire - is what you found in his speech I have to assume you can't listen or read properly. Or you don't want to...

Accusing of all people Habeck of racism is insane, or quite amusing. You picked the completely wrong one here.
 
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