I think people get to hung up on slogans. All politicians use them and they are normally lies.Legal case in Germany is under way.
"The Public Prosecutor's Office confirmed on reports that investigations had been started against the 28-year-old El Ghazi: "According to our assessment, there is initial suspicion against the accused of disturbing the public peace by endorsing crimes in conjunction with incitement to hatred by disseminating content," said the public prosecutor's office."
(For the law book freaks on here it's §§ 130 and 140 StGB ;) )
Instead of using a silly rhyme, people who want to support a free Palestine could just say "I want a free state of Palestine".
In my understanding, intentionally using the ambiguous rhyme in the context of the 7 October Hamas attacks and IDF bombing in Gaza is a straight case of antisemitism.
People who don't want to wipe out Israel never would use that rhyme.
Free Palestine? Yes of course.
I understand those supporting the right to defend themselves.It’s the same for anyone who dares to support Israel in its war against Hamas.
Totally agree. Despite this being a very emotive issue, everyone has been behaved well.There is also some very good and very civil discussion in here which should be highlighted too.
I understand those supporting the right to defend themselves.
It’s the lack of addressing any of the underlying issues that are brought up in the same discussions about, why is this happening?
What happened on the 7th October has to have a response. Hamas have to be dealt with. We discuss what ought to be done, but the polarisation of the discussion means, what I referred to as the elephant in the room, to my mind is ignored by those that won’t accept criticism of Israel.
You’ve been supportive of the Israeli response as have others but I don’t label you anti Islamic.
It’s a generalisation I’ll admit but pointing out the flaws in Israeli-Palestinian policy and you tend to not have long to wait before anti-semitism is bandied about.
It’s a generalisation as I say. There is also some very good and very civil discussion in here which should be highlighted too.
Well @blueinsa I would say that’s the clearest explanation from you on your stance in this thread so far. At least to me it is, as I do take a keen interest in where you are coming from.What you have for me is a highly polarised discussion on a politically left wing slanted forum, dominated by a vocal number of posters who would 100% describe themselves as very left wing in their views. For years they have been 100% for the Palestinian cause and very anti Israel policy re Gaza and the West Bank. For every post you think is someone defending Israel and not condemning you will find many many more defending Palestinians and decrying Israel, often using choice language and terms to describe them. No one is asked to decry Hamas constantly, it’s a given or at least I would hope it is for the vast majority and I’d say the same goes for what is a minority that defends Israel and its right to defend itself. Stating as much doesn’t mean you condone all actions and policy, far from it in the exact same way defending the rights of Palestinians doesn’t make you a Hamas supporter.
What would help is if some of the language used when you don’t like an opinion is toned down and for this thread not to descend into the usual left vs right fight.
It’s not about left vs Right, it’s not a game some people just have compassion and empathy for all people whatever their race or creedWhat you have for me is a highly polarised discussion on a politically left wing slanted forum, dominated by a vocal number of posters who would 100% describe themselves as very left wing in their views. For years they have been 100% for the Palestinian cause and very anti Israel policy re Gaza and the West Bank. For every post you think is someone defending Israel and not condemning you will find many many more defending Palestinians and decrying Israel, often using choice language and terms to describe them. No one is asked to decry Hamas constantly, it’s a given or at least I would hope it is for the vast majority and I’d say the same goes for what is a minority that defends Israel and its right to defend itself. Stating as much doesn’t mean you condone all actions and policy, far from it in the exact same way defending the rights of Palestinians doesn’t make you a Hamas supporter.
What would help is if some of the language used when you don’t like an opinion is toned down and for this thread not to descend into the usual left vs right fight but fat chance of that ever happening on this forum sadly.
Well @blueinsa I would say that’s the clearest explanation from you on your stance in this thread so far. At least to me it is, as I do take a keen interest in where you are coming from.
And I think I get it. I think I understand your stance.
And that’s fair enough.
Personally, I would have sympathy with the Palestinian people. It may be in the Irish psyche, but I tend to spell out as clear as I can my logic and reasoning and don’t like being misinterpreted. It’s probably why I might proclaim my feelings on both sides of an issue.
I understand totally that people in here may have been bitten more than once in other political threads and might not wish to present a view or opinion on both sides of an issue. It may suffice just to present a defence for one side of the argument.
That’s fine.
It’s not what comes naturally to me but I’ve always been one to ask ‘Why?’
I like things explained to me and that can go for people too when you get embedded in a deep debate like this.
I agree with you that sometimes people misinterpret a simple ‘Why?’ and the language used can get nasty. Most people stay calm however.
The bottom line for me in this debate is ‘Justice’. We all know it and we all recognise ‘Injustice’ when we see it. Calling out injustice shouldn’t require you to take a side. Whoever is administering injustice whether it is Hamas or a right wing Israeli government should be called out.
I totally get that and without going back to check, I hope to god ( whichever one you believe in) that when using the term Zionist I have attached right wing to it, which I think I have.I absolutely defend the right of Israel to defend itself from an enemy like Hamas and to set about destroying it.
I have absolute sympathy with the vast majority of innocent citizens that live in Gaza and the West Bank and want nothing but a peaceful existence but who can’t because of Hamas and an Israeli government, led by a leader who is seemingly not interested in peace.
I have no sympathy or support with Hamas and their supporters in the exact same way I have no sympathies or support of Israeli citizens with equally extreme views re the wiping out of what they feel is an enemy that sadly includes everyone due to their own bigotry.
Not all Palestinians are terrorists in the exact same way not all Israeli citizens are Zionists as framed in this discussion. The use of the word Zionist on here is at best disingenuous and at worst, borderline antisemitic imo in the same way anyone who claimed all Palestinians where terrorists would be guilty of the same, being disingenuous and Islamophobic.
Zionist describes anyone with the view Israel has a right to develop, exist and protect itself in what is now Israel. That’s not an extreme view and it’s no different to the vast majority of nations citizens the world over who will defend the right to exist and defend itself. To read this thread sadly, many don’t hold that opinion and that’s a question if you want an answer to you will have to ask them?
Which is more reason why this particular officer seems to be doing the right thing.Fuckin lol. The policy is shoot with live rounds if stones are thrown by children. I'm fairly sure arresting kids isn't in the IDF's thoughts most of the time when a bullet can normally settle it.
They won't win in the court of worldwide opinion and support chiefly because they can't wage an effective propaganda war - if he thinks the deaths of innocent people can be brushed off like this he is part of the problem not part of the fix. I fear for the region
I really don't see what the soldier has done wrong here. A kid using a slingshot stones him and he attempts to arrest the kid as the kid resists vehemently. Then a bunch of the kid's defenders show up and stop him from arresting the kid.
He then gives up the attempted arrest because he recognizes that catastrophic violence would be necessary to execute the arrest.
I don't see anything the soldier did wrong and there certainly wasn't any "brutalizing" going on.
Couldn't have put it better myself.True. But if I had lived in Kenya say during the Iraq war I would be surprised if anyone blamed me personally just because I was British.
I think people who support the Palestinian cause need to be clear on this. The beef is with Netanyahu and his cronies. Not with Jewish people.
Sorry, but that's simplistic. Does "Zionist" describe those who just wanted a Jewish homeland somewhere, anywhere? Those who wanted to take over Palestine without realising it already had people in it? (A land without people for a people without land.) Those who didn't change their mind when they realised it wasn't "empty" and it would mean expelling Arabs? Or that the Arab population might object? Or likened it to white people colonising non-white lands? (Did Arabs have the right to defend their land against colonisation?)...
Zionist describes anyone with the view Israel has a right to develop, exist and protect itself in what is now Israel. That’s not an extreme view and it’s no different to the vast majority of nations citizens the world over who will defend the right to exist and defend itself. To read this thread sadly, many don’t hold that opinion and that’s a question if you want an answer to you will have to ask them?
This is irrelevant in regards to the video I responded to. The poster of that video made a claim about the video showing a soldier brutalizing a child. It wasn't a general claim about the West Bank. It was a specific claim about what's on the video we were about to watch.They’re antagonised and brutalised on an almost daily basis by armed IDF and settlers, I’ve seen it first hand.
Again, none of this is relevant to the video we saw as it relates to the truthfulness or falsehood of the claims made about the video.Just a couple of months ago the IDF shot and killed a 3 year old toddler in the Tamimi family. By accident of course! Just like the other 50 or so children this year alone in the West Bank.
No, I don't need to do any of that. I have made no claims regarding what happens generally. I have simply stated what I saw from viewing the video.You might want to look at what actually goes on in the West Bank to understand why the kids throw stones at them, before you respond with such callousness.
Are you saying if a kid throws stones he should not be arrested?Re-read what you wrote and put emphasis on the words KID and SOLDIER.