PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

Dribble said:
If I recall correctly, they fell into the five categories below, but Colin explained how each one related to City specifically in a way that was very easy to understand & relate to.

Another was to do with related companies. There's a ruling that clubs have to show three proposals to prove the sponsorship secured fair market value, but @Prestwich_Blue should be able to confirm it.

The rest were all about not being fair & showing respect to other PL clubs etc...

1. Acting in Good Faith
(50 Breaches)

2. Player & Manager Remuneration
(24 Breaches)

3. UEFA FFP Regulations
(5 Breaches)

4. Profitability & Sustainability
(6 Breaches)

5. Non Cooperation
(30 Breaches)

https://www.sportlawmusings.com/post/the-man-city-charges-why-what-when-what-could-happen
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And in case it hasn't been noticed, the Non Cooperation is the only one not inherently linked to the others. In the sense that if you prove innocence of one, you are almost by default then not guilty of another 2 or 3 of them. Whereas that one is a bit in isolation, you could be innocent of all of them, but be deemed to not have cooperated.
 
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Cobwebcat said:
They’ve appealed the PL decision in the same way we have so we are both at the same stage. There are no appeals after that under normal circumstances.
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Not sure I agree here. Everton were charged, supposedly after a three year too and fro and a punishment issued, presumably by the three person panel appointed by the Prem.
They have appealed the punishment and by default the charges.
We have been charged but there is no outcome. We have nothing to appeal against until the initial outcome is decided. This trigger is the decision from the 3 person committee.

So I believe Everton are at stage 2 and we are not yet at the end of stage 1 - maybe not even very close to the starting gate!

Additionally I thought I understood that we had chucked a grenade and brought some sort of legal proceedings against some elements of the charges and the process - possibly the time barred elements, the punishment for historic offences already heard by CAS and maybe the constitution of the 3 person committee and the impartiality of the Chair.

If correct then this will have to be dealt with before the Prem committee can properly look at our case.

Aside from the sheer volume and weight of evidence to consider this is maybe why our case might take years. Any decision on the issues caused by our grenade can presumably be appealed through the legal system outside the Prem closed shop.

All this is second guessing from stuff I’ve read and surmised. I might be miles off and if so sorry for the distraction.
 
BeerIsTheBest said:
Not sure I agree here. Everton were charged, supposedly after a three year too and fro and a punishment issued, presumably by the three person panel appointed by the Prem.
They have appealed the punishment and by default the charges.
We have been charged but there is no outcome. We have nothing to appeal against until the initial outcome is decided. This trigger is the decision from the 3 person committee.

So I believe Everton are at stage 2 and we are not yet at the end of stage 1 - maybe not even very close to the starting gate!

Additionally I thought I understood that we had chucked a grenade and brought some sort of legal proceedings against some elements of the charges and the process - possibly the time barred elements, the punishment for historic offences already heard by CAS and maybe the constitution of the 3 person committee and the impartiality of the Chair.

If correct then this will have to be dealt with before the Prem committee can properly look at our case.

Aside from the sheer volume and weight of evidence to consider this is maybe why our case might take years. Any decision on the issues caused by our grenade can presumably be appealed through the legal system outside the Prem closed shop.

All this is second guessing from stuff I’ve read and surmised. I might be miles off and if so sorry for the distraction.
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Exactly this. I have asked numerous times on this forum ref where our legal challenge is at but we don’t seem to have anyone ITK. Like you I would assume the EPL appointed panel cannot commence until our legal challenges have been addressed.
 
meltonblue said:
They didn’t group all the eight charges for Everton though, they didn’t get charged with failure to report related party transactions correctly for example. I agree with your sentiment though in terms of us, some of the charges taken individually are bordering on ridiculous.

On the UEFA one, it’s a follow on from the other charges, they can’t not include it.
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They absolutely did group Everton's charges together into a single charge. They charged Everton for failing Profit and Sustainability rules - making it out to be a single charge.

For City, they charged us for breaching every clause within the P&S section of rules - 25 separate charges in total.

The actual rules for 2021/22 (Everton's year) are listed below. If they were to treat Everton and City fairly and equally, they should have said which of E.45, E.46, E.47, E.48, E.49, E.50, E.51 and E.52 Everton were being charged with, and said they had a specific number of charges laid against them.

But no, just look at X, formerly known as Twitter, and you will quickly see that football in general believes Everton had one breach against them, while City has 115 and deserve a 1150 points deduction.

Edit. For the avoidance of doubt that Everton's charges have been aggregated to make it look like a single charge, my view is that they have at least breached E.45, E.48, E.50, E51 and E.52. In addition, the judgement against them says they breached B.15 (acting in good faith towards other clubs). So that's at least 6 charges, not one, as inferred by the original announcement.


fef108aa7bb03fb971b78fb409292e2a.jpg
 
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abu13 said:
This is going to end up as one huge shit show that could bring the PL to it's knees.

Too many people have too much to lose and with the ruling that clubs can sue each other the shit is going to hit the fan and everyone is going to get a mouthful
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The PL will be in the hands of the regulator by that time. I feel that this will change much about how the PL is run.
 
abu13 said:
This is going to end up as one huge shit show that could bring the PL to it's knees.

Too many people have too much to lose and with the ruling that clubs can sue each other the shit is going to hit the fan and everyone is going to get a mouthful
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A creeping death thanks to the "Americanisation" of English football.
 
JewelZee said:
Everton won't get relegated and were never going to qualify for a European place this season so this whole "harsh" 10 point deduction is a facade. It makes it look like the PL are taking a tough stance when in effect the net result to Everton will be negligible...

And it gives all these assholes another chance to scream bloody murder about us...what a joke...
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Bingo! As always, the true target is City……
 
Dribble said:
Do clubs apply directly to UEFA for their licence, or through the PL?

I recall a sports lawyer talking about this some time ago, & he explained it the associations who make up UEFA, not individual clubs.

The club's formed their own powerful lobby called the ECA which was dominated by the G/14 elite European Football Clubs.

That was my understanding of it, but I'm happy to be corrected.

View attachment 99201

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/protecting-the-game/club-licensing/
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They apply to the PL for a licence. I assume the PL grants the licence for their clubs to play in UEFA competitions.

716dce86422c49696e09d9d18af79490.jpg
 
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The baying mob has been enlivened by the recent ruling by the PL with regards to Everton. The stupids are speculating what will happen to City mostly based on no knowledge.

Interesting thought though, if City were guilty or there was at least a small chance we were going to receive a heavy sanction I would expect the following to have happened or be happening...

1. Haaland would not have signed for us.
2. Haaland would have asked to leave.
3. As above for other players.
4. Pep would have left.
5. Sponsors would be running for the hills.
6. We would have put stadium investment on hold.
7. Our performances would have dropped off.

In reality, the complete opposite has happened. Ignore the stupids on social media. Look at what's happening at City. City know what they have done in the past and what they going to do in the future. I believe in these guys, not some numb skulls on social media desperate for more likes and more followers.

Come on City!
 
HelloCity said:
My prediction is that the PL screws us over but the new regulator allows us to take it to a real court where we ultimately win out. The regulator will hold off any punishment given by the panel until a verdict is reached.
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I've learned so much the last 24 hours, that I've had to shift my views accordingly.

I've been stating that the PL have charged us without viewing our "irrefutable evidence", but I now believe I was mistaken.

My evolved view is that since all this started in 2018, the PL have leveled their accusations at City, & City have provided our defence evidence.

It also seems both parties differed on two substantive points.

1. The PL wanted full unrestricted access to our accounts & internal records, but City said no.

2. City wanted the process to be private & confidential, but the Law Courts disagreed & said the process was of public interest.

In respect to point one, City told the PL to be specific about their allegations & we'd provide the relevant defence evidence, as opposed to the PL going on a fishing trip & poring through all our confidential internal business records to see what they could find.

In respect to point two, fearing reputational damage, City wanted to keep the investigation process private & confidential & without leaks, as we experienced with UEFA. The courts disagreed.

I now believe the PL have gone through our evidence, but were caught flat footed by the Government's Independent Regulator for English Football (IREF) announcement in February 2023.

Panicked, the PL rushed out their judgement filled with administrative errors by citing the wrong PL rule book indeces, which they embarrassingly had to correct.

City denied any wrong doing & appealed the PL's ruling, so another three members from the PL's internal 6-person independent adjudication panel were selected to review the charges, evidence & defence again.

This is where I believe myself, & most of us have been mistaken. It took the PL FIVE YEARS to come to their rushed decision in February, so I feel expert onlookers have estimated the appeals process will take at least two years to complete, but could easily stretch to four years!

The reason no information about the appeal is being circulated by the PL or City is because the whole process is private & confidential, & when it's complete, the PL appeals panel will publish its verdict on the PL's website.

The time being taken now isn't because the PL have only just asked City for our evidence, which would take years to go through. I now firmly believe they've had our evidence all along, but because of the volume of PL charge evidence & City's defence evidence that the PL's appeal panel will have to wade through, it could take nearly as long again to review the tribunal bundles.

As always, if I'm wrong I'm more than happy to hold my hands up, & in this latest FFP case against City, I believe I've been calling this wrong.

This post now hopefully adjusts my considered view accordingly.

In Conclusion:

I doubt there's any fresh charges coming, or any new defence evidence being offered. Everything surrounding this hearing has already been submitted & adjudicated on.

The PL found us guilty on 115 charges & City have appealed their verdict. Another three members from the PL's 6-person appeals panel have been selected to review the case again, & this is estimated to take between two - four years.

The PL's appeal panel decision will be final & City can't appeal their verdict to the Law Courts, UNLESS it's to do with issues relating to the actual appeals process.

We know who the PL clubs are who're desperate to get City, which honestly doesn't bode well.

HOWEVER, before anyone starts stringing up a noose, don't forget IREF! This is the spanner in the works none of the old Sky 4, the Hateful Eight, or the PL were expecting.

I'm not holding out much hope the appeals panel will find any different to the PL's original 115 charges, BUT I believe IREF & ultimately the UK Law Courts will, just as CAS did.

It's game on folks & we're in a proper scrap with an organisation run by a cartel of legacy clubs who want us gone.

They tried to strangle us at birth, so their dominance could never be challenged by new money, so just like any progressive business would, City found LEGAL ways around UEFA & the PL's self serving FFP rules.

I believe this fight will come down to UK Sovereign Law vs the PL's Rules. This is why I believe IREF is our only & best way forward. )(
 
I can't take any credit for this...expect for reading it, but some legend of a Blue had this email published on the Football 365 website today, quoted in full below.....it's great stuff..

"Man City DID fail to cooperate with the UEFA enquiry and were fined for it, that’ absolutely true. The context though that everybody conveniently ignores, is that City were perfectly cooperating with the CFCB investigation right up until that body leaked sensitive business information of Man City’s to the press, and then they stopped because UEFA couldn’t be trusted not to leak files to their mates that were supposed to be confidential (and indeed were of great interest to rival clubs chasing sponsorships). This was even commented upon by CAS so feel free to use this point next time you’re all pretending that you read the judgement.

In regard to the PL case, City deny the failure to cooperate charge and it’s fair to say that according to the journalists covering them, they were pretty shocked this came up. They even commented on this in their initial statement.

It’s funny how [people] rant on and on about how corrupt UEFA, the Big Four, the ECA, the PL and the rest are but when it comes to Man City apparently they’re all paragons of virtue and it’s not a stitch-up despite the 115 charges being conveniently released the day before the Independent Football Regulator vote, despite the fact that the press release was so rushed that they had to go back and edit it because they quoted the wrong regulations (which for a legal statement tells you a lot), despite the fact that UEFA attempted to break its own rules to charge City and were caught by CAS, despite the fact that City only failed FFP the first time around because UEFA DID change their rules 2 years into a 3 year Monitoring Period to disallow some exemptions, despite the fact that of the 5 actual allegations by the PL 2 of them are instantly dismissable and the other 3 have already being investigated and cleared by numerous courts.

People coping on the Etisalat deal don’t understand firstly how small that deal is and secondly how it will be clear like everything else was.

Do you know why City have 115 charges against them? Because they’re fishing. The PL spent 6 years investigating City’s accounts (with cooperation of City by the way) and came up with a bunch of easily dismissable stuff (“paying people off the books”, etc), a bunch of stuff other people have already investigated and which they have no new evidence of (sponsorship deals) and a vague charge which doesn’t really mean anything concrete and is subjectively judged (failing to cooperate).

If the PL ACTUALLY believed that they had the evidence to go against City then they’d have a small and watertight case, instead they’ve gone as wide as possible. There were 28,000 documents submitted in the Everton case as evidence relating to a single charge. How many do you believe the PL will get for 115 charges? How much manpower do you think it would take to go through and cross reference it all?

This is all irrelevant any way to be honest, because not a single one of you actually cares about this case in the terms of its legal merits. You’ve already judged City guilty so if YET AGAIN there are no financial irregularities found then it doesn’t matter to you, because despite having no legal, accounting, marketing or football business experience then you all know better than every court in the land. Stop pretending you’re on some moral crusade for truth and start acknowledging that you just want City to fail for other reasons and you’re hoping through ignorance that the financial irregularities that still remain completely unproven is the thing that will topple them because your clubs have no ability to compete on the pitch due to terrible mismanagement. Oh and the guys who were “there’s no smoke without fire”/”just because it’s not proven doesn’t mean it’s not true” the other day, please please please disqualify yourself from jury service because you’re a danger to society.

I’m sure this will result in some face saving deal for the PL who will hand down some massive and hilarious sentence docking 5 billion points and stripping every title ever won ever which they know will be completely unenforceable and will be overturned about sixteen seconds into the appeals process. But they get their big PR win for a few months, City get dragged through the press as per usual and the fact that it all gets dismissed on appeal won’t matter a jot to people because everybody wins in that scenario apart from those of us who would prefer Governing bodies not to purposely attempt to stitch up people because they happen to be taking revenue away from clubs they’d prefer it to go to.
And no, you still don’t understand how the time barring thing worked."

GOOD MAN, WELL SAID!
 
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