VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[Pingu the Penguin]

This is because Rugby has had VAR for 23 years now as opposed to football's 5, and the rule book has been rewritten to reflect the TMO existing. Football's showing real resistance to doing that, but they'll have to eventually.

Bringing in decisions trees for all red card offences (There's only 7!) would immediately cut out 75% of VAR and refereeing complaints, it allows the fan to understand the thought process even if they disagree.

Yep been saying this for ages. The chats we’ve heard them have a chaotic and putting some rigour in would help massively. Might potentially speed things up too, bizarrely

 

[KentBlue]

Transparency. It is so obviously the correct way to do things that you have to wonder why the authorities won't implement it.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Transparency. It is so obviously the correct way to do things that you have to wonder why the authorities won't implement it.

All for it. but it wont make much of a dent.

last night incident, let's say we could hear in real time...

VAR - 'ref, you might want to check the monitor, that foot is too high from Lewin and potential red'
Ref ' cheers, i'll take a look'

(runs to monitor)

Ref 'yep your right, studs showing and way to high, red card, cheers'


would that really calm the storm ?

 

[TinFoilHat]

All for it. but it wont make much of a dent.

last night incident, let's say we could hear in real time...

VAR - 'ref, you might want to check the monitor, that foot is too high from Lewin and potential red'
Ref ' cheers, i'll take a look'

(runs to monitor)

Ref 'yep your right, studs showing and way to high, red card, cheers'


would that really calm the storm ?

It would help me understand why decisions are made.

Along with Semi automated offsides.

I'm a fan of VAR, just not a fan of the people who operate it.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

More VAR nonsense with Calvert Lewi sent off for didly squat. VAR should have told the ref to book the Palace player for play acting. But sadly that isn't allowed. VAR is there to just reward cheating like Jota on Monday.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Is VAR in use for the Arsenal/Liverpool cup tie?

PiGMOL don't need to apologise in a cup game...

 

[inchy14]

More VAR nonsense with Calvert Lewi sent off for didly squat. VAR should have told the ref to book the Palace player for play acting. But sadly that isn't allowed. VAR is there to just reward cheating like Jota on Monday.

I’m surprised (not) that the PFA don’t get involved here, there all members of the same union yet some are causing fellow members to be disciplined and fined due to their actions, not sure any other work force would allow this to happen.

The media don’t help by not calling the cheating out.

 

[halfcenturyup]

It's the refs decision. no one else's.

:)

 

[halfcenturyup]

This is because Rugby has had VAR for 23 years now as opposed to football's 5, and the rule book has been rewritten to reflect the TMO existing. Football's showing real resistance to doing that, but they'll have to eventually.

Bringing in decisions trees for all red card offences (There's only 7!) would immediately cut out 75% of VAR and refereeing complaints, it allows the fan to understand the thought process even if they disagree.

Not sure only having 5 years to get a critical system working properly is much of a defence, tbh. It wouldn't be in any other billion pound business , I think.

Your second point is spot on, though. A simple procedure for each offence applying each of the determining factors will, at least, make them sound like they know what they are doing.

 

[117 M34]

I don't understand the moaning about the Calvert Lewis decision.
Was a clear red for me.

 

[willipp]

Referees must hate all this VAR nonsense. It's making their jobs impossible.

I was out at xmas with one of the refs in VAR last night and he told me this exact thing. Said he really didn't enjoy doing VAR at all and all the refs just wanted to ref in the middle and not have to sit in Stockley park at a desk trying to make sense of the shit show they have put in place. He said the pressure is ridiculous to get things right and for me that's just leading to them making more and more mistakes.

 

[domalino]

Not sure only having 5 years to get a critical system working properly is much of a defence, tbh. It wouldn't be in any other billion pound business , I think.

Your second point is spot on, though. A simple procedure for each offence applying each of the determining factors will, at least, make them sound like they know what they are doing.

It took World Rugby until 2019, so 18 years, to create the decision making framework to be fair, before then it was just like football's rule book.

 

[domalino]

I was out at xmas with one of the refs in VAR last night and he told me this exact thing. Said he really didn't enjoy doing VAR at all and all the refs just wanted to ref in the middle and not have to sit in Stockley park at a desk trying to make sense of the shit show they have put in place. He said the pressure is ridiculous to get things right and for me that's just leading to them making more and more mistakes.

It's not pressure that makes them make mistakes.

Brain surgeons, Air Traffic Control, soldiers in live action, F1 drivers....they deal with a level of pressure the average person or PL referee couldn't even comprehend.

They manage to do those jobs under that much pressure while only making a fraction of the mistakes referees make because their jobs have been structured and refined so that as many irrelevant parts of the situation are stripped away, the rules they are enforcing are clear, and they know how to apply those in a simple, prioritised, manner.

Referees make mistake because they try to answer one big subjective question instead of breaking it down into half a dozen objective decisions that can be made almost automatically.

 

[mancboy]

All for it. but it wont make much of a dent.

last night incident, let's say we could hear in real time...

VAR - 'ref, you might want to check the monitor, that foot is too high from Lewin and potential red'
Ref ' cheers, i'll take a look'

(runs to monitor)

Ref 'yep your right, studs showing and way to high, red card, cheers'


would that really calm the storm ?

yeah i think it would because at least you know how they came to the conclusion even if you disagree with it

 

[BlueHammer85]

yeah i think it would because at least you know how they came to the conclusion even if you disagree with it

surely we do in every case, I can't think of many (if any) where a ref has gone to monitor and checked and given a verdict which i have no clue why. 99% of them are pretty obvious. Lewin clearly had studs up over the ball so they deemed it a red. I don't need to hear the audio on that personally but i am all for audio to be given if it puts more trust and transparency in the game.

 

[mancboy]

surely we do in every case, I can't think of many (if any) where a ref has gone to monitor and checked and given a verdict which i have no clue why. 99% of them are pretty obvious. Lewin clearly had studs up over the ball so they deemed it a red. I don't need to hear the audio on that personally but i am all for audio to be given if it puts more trust and transparency in the game.

i think for an open and shut case such as that then maybe not but say for the jota one, it would just instill more trust in the process if people could hear the process at all points and that is entirely possible so people then ask will if its possible why not do it, what do they have to hide.

 

[BlueHammer85]

i think for an open and shut case such as that then maybe not but say for the jota one, it would just instill more trust in the process if people could hear the process at all points and that is entirely possible so people then ask will if its possible why not do it, what do they have to hide.

Jota one would be even more simple i would guess...

Ref - penalty, Jota taking out by keeper'
VAR ' Come and have a second look'
Ref - 'yep there was contact so definitely a penalty '

Don't see what else would be said.

 

[mancboy]

Jota one would be even more simple i would guess...

Ref - penalty, Jota taking out by keeper'
VAR ' Come and have a second look'
Ref - 'yep there was contact so definitely a penalty '

Don't see what else would be said.

how bout the two steps that he carried on for before throwing himself to the ground, contact does not always equal a penalty and as i said if its so open and shut what is there to hide?

 

[BlueHammer85]

how bout the two steps that he carried on for before throwing himself to the ground, contact does not always equal a penalty and as i said if its so open and shut what is there to hide?

agree, but don't think they would even mention that.

keeper clips him so ref deemed it a penalty. obvious he dives after contact though.

 

[mancboy]

agree, but don't think they would even mention that.

keeper clips him so ref deemed it a penalty. obvious he dives after contact though.

then they dont mention it but thats another discussion altogether isnt it, still doesnt take away from the fact that if people could hear the conversation whether they agreed with it or not it would remove some of the trust issues surrounding it, same goes for making refs explain how they have come to decisions post game instead of hiding behind point less apologies from webb.