Mr Bates vs the Post Office

[Mr Kobayashi]

Trying to get management to listen to staff in any organisation can be nigh on impossible.

Shut up and do as you are told. :)

 

[sir baconface]

True mate, but I’d expect a decent Defence, Prosecutor, and a fair minded Judge, to have recognised it and questioned the before and after.

Just seems they’ve been let down by everybody, every step of the way

Correct. Wankers in the legal profession are certainly not exempt from culpability or contempt In this matter. And I won’t charge you £1000 per hour for telling you what you already knew.

 

[MCFC Wirral]

Shut up and do as you are told. :)

Mum?

 

[bluethrunthru]

What I would like to know is
How many a year postmaster got accused of thieving compared to how many after the Horizon system was introduced. If my guess is correct Surely it should of been a red flag that all not right with Horizon.

I heard a guy from Computer Weekly interviewed yesterday and he was asked just that. He said as far as they could check there were about 10 taken to court the year before Horizon and 110 after its roll out. He said that there was a group think at the Post Office that was a result of Horizon being so good - that manually auditing only went so deep or so far but the super dooper technology they had purchased was finding all those wrong 'uns they had previously been missing

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Mum?

Are you lost ?

 

[sir baconface]

The usual pricks like 30p Lee were trying to somehow pin this on Ed Davey.

While I am not saying he is blameless I did see a great comment saying something along the lines

"imagine trying to explain to someone from another country that the leader of the UK's 4th largest party was responsible and should resign"

Easier to explain he’s useless and a hypocrite who habitually calls for other wankers to resign.

This guy has got like 15 brain cells... How is he so fkin high up the food chain the PO, controlling peoples lives.

40 years as a jobsworth in an organisation that was virtually immune from competition for much of that time.

Not everybody reads Private Eye or Computer Weekly, and the main stream media were fairly low key about the whole fiasco.

Hell, it wasn’t even picked up on Bluemoon…

Any chance this investigator will get time

His performance, if I might call it that, was driven purely by legal advice to try to dodge that possibility.

How this fella got the job he did is beyond belief

Please see above.

Just to be shallow for a minute, is this going to entertain if I watch it. I'm in the mood for drama, not docu-drama. If anyone gets what I mean. Is is is a good watch just on it's face.

Defo. Excellent on both levels. I started about 9 pm one evening and had to binge-watch the whole series.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I heard a guy from Computer Weekly interviewed yesterday and he was asked just that. He said as far as they could check there were about 10 taken to court the year before Horizon and 110 after its roll out. He said that there was a group think at the Post Office that was a result of Horizon being so good - that manually auditing only went so deep or so far but the super dooper technology they had purchased was finding all those wrong 'uns they had previously been missing

Anyone skimming would not have had declared losses of such magnitude. Dishonest people do not draw attention to themselves in that way, in those numbers. People of previous good character of a certain vintage do not suddenly start knicking en masse. Not like that. You might get the odd one who has slipped through the net, or who develops a gambling habit, but the numbers on this never made any sense.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Anyone skimming would not have had declared losses of such magnitude. Dishonest people do not draw attention to themselves in that way, in those numbers. People of previous good character of a certain vintage do not suddenly start knicking en masse. Not like that. You might get the odd one who has slipped through the net, or who develops a gambling habit, but the numbers on this never made any sense.

I believe that to become a Sub-postmaster/mistress you went through some pretty thorough vetting too

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I believe that to become a Sub-postmaster/mistress you went through some pretty thorough vetting too

Much of it predates the enhanced DBS regime, but CRB checks would still have been undertaken. The checks made by the PO would have been more thorough than virtually any organisation at the time.

The other thing that worth noting (although of negligible evidential value) is that when people are rumbled for being on the take they often fess up. Not out of any sense of contrition but in order to avoid criminal sanctions. I’ve seen it plenty of times. Most retailers are happy to get the money back and dismiss the employee, partly because they are nervous about exposing any faults in the system for fear of wider exploitation and notification of its weakness. If they can get the money back and make it go away then they’ll often take that route. People who haven’t had the money in the first place can’t and won’t generally do that.

Another factor is the types who were attracted to that role. Pubs, bars, bookies and even clothes retail shops tend to attract staff and management who are more likely to be on the take. Often because of lifestyle issues. Chancers and duckers and divers aren’t as likely to be attracted to the to role of a SP. People in that role tend to be more measured and less flamboyant. Not saying people like that can’t be on the take, but it’s definitely less prevalent.

And as I said before, people on the take don’t tend to have daily declared cash losses running into the thousands. Not if they are any good at it.

None of these things are overwhelming on their own, but create an overall picture of wholesale implausibility when evaluating this.

 

[Blue Mist]

Gmb had a post mistress who was convicted and the journo that exposed it on this morning , sky and itv have had multiple interviews every hour , wall to wall this week , there are other things on the news too

@kaz7 Brilliant, maybe I worded it badly. Let's see if it is in the news next Friday. All I see is a great big cover up. I totally back Ukraine but was Sunak scheduled to be in Ukraine today?
Are they looking to move people away from this terrible injustice so that it goes away for another 5 years?

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Much of it predates the enhanced DBS regime, but CRB checks would still have been undertaken. The checks made by the PO would have been more thorough than virtually any organisation at the time.

The other thing that worth noting (although of negligible evidential value) is that when people are rumbled for being on the take they often fess up. Not out of any sense of contrition but in order to avoid criminal sanctions. I’ve seen it plenty of times. Most retailers are happy to get the money back and dismiss the employee, partly because they are nervous about exposing any faults in the system for fear of wider exploitation and notification of its weakness. If they can get the money back and make it go away then they’ll often take that route. People who haven’t had the money in the first place can’t and won’t generally do that.

Another factor is the types who were attracted to that role. Pubs, bars, bookies and even clothes retail shops tend to attract staff and management who are more likely to be on the take. Chancers and duckers and divers aren’t as likely to be attracted to the to role of a SP.

And as I said before, people on the take don’t tend to have daily declared cash losses running into the thousands.

None of these things are overwhelming on their own, but create an overall picture of wholesale implausibility when evaluating this.

Not to mention that I find it unlikely that if somebody were skimming large amounts of money, their first course of action would be to repeatedly phone a helpdesk and alert the Post Office to the discrepancy.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Not to mention that I find it unlikely that if somebody were skimming large amounts of money, their first course of action would be to repeatedly phone a helpdesk and alert the Post Office to the discrepancy.

Good point!

One of the hallmarks of repeated skimming is a discernible reduction in communication with HQ, especially in relation to banking and cash management. It’s one of the signs that triggers a call from finance to an area manager to pay the site a visit.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Much of it predates the enhanced DBS regime, but CRB checks would still have been undertaken. The checks made by the PO would have been more thorough than virtually any organisation at the time.

The other thing that worth noting (although of negligible evidential value) is that when people are rumbled for being on the take they often fess up. Not out of any sense of contrition but in order to avoid criminal sanctions. I’ve seen it plenty of times. Most retailers are happy to get the money back and dismiss the employee, partly because they are nervous about exposing any faults in the system for fear of wider exploitation and notification of its weakness. If they can get the money back and make it go away then they’ll often take that route. People who haven’t had the money in the first place can’t and won’t generally do that.

Another factor is the types who were attracted to that role. Pubs, bars, bookies and even clothes retail shops tend to attract staff and management who are more likely to be on the take. Often because of lifestyle issues. Chancers and duckers and divers aren’t as likely to be attracted to the to role of a SP. People in that role tend to be more measured and less flamboyant. Not saying people like that can’t be on the take, but it’s definitely less prevalent.

And as I said before, people on the take don’t tend to have daily declared cash losses running into the thousands. Not if they are any good at it.

None of these things are overwhelming on their own, but create an overall picture of wholesale implausibility when evaluating this.

also you follow the money - if the person you are investigating is down £80 - drives a 12 year old Corsa - takes one weeks holiday in a rented caravan in Skeggy - works all hours - what are they doing with the money you think they have taken? I remember a place where I worked where an FNOL claims handler was harvesting customer details when they reported an accident and selling it on to a 3rd Party claim company who would contact the driver and offer to handle their claim - for a fee of course.

How was this found out? He loved Italian cars and went from a ropey Punto to a leased Maserati Quattroporte almost over night........

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

How was this found out? He loved Italian cars and went from a ropey Punto to a leased Maserati Quattroporte almost over night........

Daft ****.

 

[Stephen230]

Imagine if one of them was actually robbing the money all along?

Everyday must be like Christmas for them at the moment.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Daft ****.

as the song says "be young, be foolish, get arrested ......"

 

[bluethrunthru]

Imagine if one of them was actually robbing the money all along?

Everyday must be like Christmas for them at the moment.

Kevin Hollinrake the Post Officer Minister has already pointed out that the proposed group exoneration could quash the convictions of someone who had been on the take. I suppose thats what comes with doing fuck all and ignoring it for years then trying to fire fight and sort it out in an afternoon because of a TV show.....

 

[MCFC Wirral]

It should be case by case so genuine thieves remain convicted.

Trying to post an eBay sale the other week was like getting popcorn at the cinema.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Imagine if one of them was actually robbing the money all along?

Everyday must be like Christmas for them at the moment.

Stealing.

Just because a conviction is unsafe doesn’t necessarily mean the convicted person is innocent. Sone of them unquestionably will have been on the take. As were the Post Office btw.

The wider interests of justice are best served by quashing any of the convictions associated with this flawed system.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It should be case by case so genuine thieves remain convicted.

The biggest thieves were the Post Office.