PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

Bez said:
If there is no proof of wrong doing the tribunal should quickly realise this process is a waste of time and bring the proceedings to a relatively speedy end. No evidence. Nothing to talk about. My understanding is the PL need to bring the evidence to the table. Not City. If the PL are relying on the Der Spiegel emails City's lawyers will be able defend these robustly. The only issue is whether the PL have new evidence that we are not aware.
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I assume the PL would have to provide any fresh evidence to City so that they could build a defence ahead of any independent hearing. Seeing as the word is City are still supremely confident in winning this, they have either not provided such evidence or they have and it's no more damaging than the evidence UEFA had
 
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Now that a sensible opinion of proceedings has been voiced to the masses.
The question needs to be asked. What has made the PL knee jerk?
Surely not leaked emails from a fraud?
The cartel?
They must have something of substance to poke the bear?
 
Just settling down for the evening, happened to glance at the MEN and saw this: https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...all-news/gary-neville-makes-man-city-28466761

To spare you reading this pile of drivel, in stark contrast to Stefan, those three titans of football finance - Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher and Ian Wright - talk about our case on a podcast.

Neville opines that it's imperative for the PL to bring forward their case against us as soon as possible. I'll come back to him in a minute.

Wright (and I've got a lot of time for Wright when I forget that he was behind the furore that saw Garry Cook resign) also felt that the club owed it to the players and fans to clear their name. Carragher's comment was that we should be looking to fix this straight away and that our continued effort to drag it out made it worse.

Zero awareness about the seriousness of the charges, the need to get it right and no recognition that it's the PL who've spent 4 years, soon to be 5, dragging this investigation out. not us.

Back to Neville now. To his credit, he's against FFP and thinks wealthy owners should be able to spend money on their clubs, but if you were a cynic you could put that down to him having one eye on the millions in Salford City's bank account he can't spend due to the EFL's version of FFP.

He also understands it's a lot more complex, bless him, but is annoyed that Masters has said they've set a date but won't say when. He assumes that means it's a way off and that's not good (at least in his eyes). Again he clearly doesn't understand the PL rule about confidentiality.

Then he talks about our offences, offering his opinion that it's about when we moved some staff and functions out of City and into separate companies. There's never been any suggestion that's part of the charges, and he clearly doesn't understand that CFM and CFS (assuming those are the companies he's referring to) cross-charged their services to the CFG clubs. So we certainly reduced wages, but also increased operating expenses. In addition, UEFA changed FFP rule to bring any such companies within City's 'reporting perimeter' (which may not have been fair if they're providing services and being paid by clubs like NYCFC, who are outside UEFA's 'perimeter'.

He also talked about Mancini's contract, although he admitted that he wasn't sure about the details, believing he was being paid in the Middle East (not the Gulf, which would have been correct) for personal appearances

And people listen to this ill-informed, or just plain wrong, nonsense and treat it as gospel. It's like asking Lord Pannick, or one of his eminent colleagues, to coach Kevin de Bruyne, or getting an accountant to tell Lewis Hamilton where his driving was going wrong.
 
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MCFC1993 said:
I think HMRC would come afterwards. As it stands right now HMRC are happy with our accounts. If solid evidence is presented to find us guilty, I imagine HMRC would then want to know.

That's why @projectriver has spoken about the seriousness of the charges. The Premier League aren't just saying City have lied to us. They are saying we're lying to everyone, PL, FA, FIFA, UEFA, HMRC, auditors. And in turn their accusing all the executives at the club of lying, Sheikh Mansour of lying, Soriano, Khaldoon, Etihad and all their executives, Etisalat and all their executives, other sponsors and their executives, Mancini, his agents, other agents involved with other players, numerous 3rd parties.

As Stefan has stated in a court of law it is deemed that people are truthful. So it's a huge accusation and as a result the burden of proof has to be solid and undeniable.

It's one of the biggest accusations of fraud in the history of this country. Arguably the trial is too big for the IC, the Premier League has cast its net so far wide that it's got tangled up in something way over their head. As Stefan said, a more defined accusation arguably would have stood a better chance.

2 KC'S and probably a former finance director are now left with making one of the biggest legal decisions in the history of this country. To convict they would be saying that an extraordinary amount of people and organisations have been untruthful and that verdict would have to hold up to scrutiny.
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The financial implications are huge for the PL if they lose. The legal costs alone will run into upper tens of millions. They are simultaneously fighting legal battles with City, Everton, Forest and soon Chelsea. From a logisitical point of view this is a nightmare for officials at the PL. There are many millions of documents involved in the City case alone. They have less than 200 employees on their staff.
This is a huge reputational risk for all senior people at the PL, all their Board Directors, all their partners and sponsors. Masters has no significant experience of working at this level in this sort of geopolitical environment. This is the biggest shit-show English football has ever seen...and it's all self-inflicted.
 
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CC1 said:
Why are you surprised?? If not that comment, they would have found another way of writing a negative headline. But they can’t hide the fact that there are now chinks forming in the PL attitude & approach AND the comments by Stefan relating to the seriousness of the PL’s accusations are now starting to be aired (even if hidden in a lower paragraph)
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I’m not surprised. Is anyone? It’s just sooooo predictable. Stefan was superb. Jordan eventually stopped butting in and was actually listening to what Stephen had to say, especially near the end of the show when Stephen said he didn’t think the PL would be able to prove City and everyone else were involved in serious, complicate, fraud and dishonesty.
 
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chris85mcfc said:
Thought Stefan was brilliant on Talksport, and hats off to him for giving an objective view, as he appears far too professional to see this through tinted glasses.

Embarrassing of Jordan to constantly reaffirm his experience of being the fucking milk monitor or whatever his career successes actually ended up being; and I actually thought Stefan was too clever for him, hence Simon agreeing with him towards the end.

Good to hear someone discuss the subject, who actually knows what he's talking about.

I really enjoyed the bit at the end where he said that the starting point would be, that everyone will almost agree that this is almost impossible to be proven.
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He was, however I would not have said we would be relegated if guilty.
That's just given the media click bait articles for the next few days.
 
Moss Side's Finest said:
The thing I don't get in any of this is. For the PL to have a successful case and punish us without any legal challenge back from us, they need to prove that we are legally guilty of fraud, which is a crime. The only way they can truly find us guilty of that is for it to go to a legal court. As this isn't a legal court, fraud cannot be proven. Hence the whole set of proceedings is a complete farce.
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They need to prove we broke their rules. That's all. If they do, it COULD be seen as fraud but I'm still dubious it'd ever get to a proper court. We're not talking about that much money.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Just settling down for the evening, happened to glance at the MEN and saw this: https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...all-news/gary-neville-makes-man-city-28466761

To spare you reading this pile of drivel, in stark contrast to Stefan, those three titans of football finance - Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher and Ian Wright - talk about our case on a podcast.

Neville opines that it's imperative for the PL to bring forward their case against us as soon as possible. I'll come back to him in a minute.

Wright (and I've got a lot of time for Wright (when I forget that he was behind the furore that saw Garry Cook resign) also felt that the club owed it to the players and fans to clear their name. Carragher's comment was that we should be looking to fix this straight away and that our continued effort to drag it out made it worse.

Zero awareness about the seriousness of the charges, the need to get it right and no recognition that it's the PL who've spent 4 years, soon to be 5, dragging this investigation out. not us.

Back to Neville now. To his credit, he's against FFP and thinks wealthy owners should be able to spend money on their clubs, but if you were a cynic you could put that down to him having one eye on the millions in Salford City's bank account he can't spend due to the EFL's version of FFP.

He also understands it's a lot more complex, bless him, but is annoyed that Masters has said they've set a date but won't say when. He assumes that means it's a way off and that's not good (at least in his eyes). Again he clearly doesn't understand the PL rule bout confidentiality.

Then he talks about our offences, offering his opinion that it's about when we moved some staff and functions out of City and into separate companies. There's never been any suggestion that's part of the charges, and he clearly doesn't understand that CFM and CFS (assuming those are the companies he's referring to) cross-charged their services to the CFG clubs. So we certainly reduced wages, but also increased operating expenses. In addition, UEFA changed FFP rule to bring any such companies within City's 'reporting perimeter' (which may not have been fair if they're providing services and being paid by clubs like NYCFC, who are outside UEFA's 'perimeter'.

He also talked about Mancini's contract, although he admitted that he wasn't sure about the details, believing he was being paid in the Middle East (not the Gulf, which would have been correct) for personal appearances

And people listen to this ill-informed, or just plain wrong, nonsense and treat it as gospel. It's like asking Lord Pannick, or one of his eminent colleagues, to coach Kevin de Bruyne, or getting an accountant to tell Lewis Hamilton where his driving was going wrong.
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I’m sick to the back teeth of these calls for it to be expedited. “It’s not good for the PL” they say. What they actually mean is they want City to be guilty today. If the PL announced tomorrow that they’ve listened to football pundits/fans re the delays and have decided it’s in the best interests of the league to drop all charges, would these same pundits/fans respond positively to the news? Would they fuck. They want it done quickly but only if City are guilty. The idea that it’s for the good of the game is absolute horse shit.
 
Sale Moor Blue said:
He was, however I would not have said we would be relegated if guilty.
That's just given the media click bait articles for the next few days.
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But its the truth.

I like the fact he hasn't gone on there to fight our corner, he's gone on there to shed some light on a complex matter, and bring a degree of reality.

Anyone with half a working brain would have listened to every word he said, a s realised he really knows what he's talking about, and has a strong idea on the likely outcome.

Fuck the media with their clicks, they'll get more clicks when the news comes out that we've been proven innocent.
 
Stiff Little Wingers said:
Have just listened and hats off to Stefan. I thought he was articulate, showed credibility and clearly tried to give as objective view as he could. trouble is he is dealing with morons and in Jordan's case a nasty moron with a clear agenda. the fact that he talked about relegation was quite clever because he then went on to show what the PL needed to prove which looks increasingly unlikely that ghey can.
I don't know why some fans are apparently a bit critical - suppose it's the fashion in these days to be contrary but we should all be applauding him.
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By skillfully introducing relegation before Jordan, Stefan put a big fat strike through the one word Jordan had underlined and highlighted on his sticky pad.

He had nowhere to go then...apart from hilariously muttering Enron under his breath. Enron. Like any TS listener would have any idea who he was referring to FFS.

Delicious.
 
Dodge said:
By skillfully introducing relegation before Jordan, Stefan put a big fat strike through the one word Jordan had underlined and highlighted on his sticky pad.

He had nowhere to go then...apart from hilariously muttering Enron under his breath. Enron. Like any TS listener would have any idea who he was referring to FFS.

Delicious.
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Speaking of Enron, Jordan certainly wasn't the smartest guy in the room.
 
Well surprise surprise Talksport and the scumbag media all running with the "City will be relegated if found guilty" section of Steffans interview. This has of course started a frenzy of excited thick twats to start celebrating as if it's nailed on to happen.
 
1961_vintage said:
And, most likely, threatened to fuck-off to the European Super League unless City were "dealt with".
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Is the correct answer! If we are cleared they have their perfect opportunity to fuck off and make the big bucks they really want. And yes you guessed it it’s all big bad city’s fault. And then the media hysteria and hatred continues!
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Then he talks about our offences, offering his opinion that it's about when we moved some staff and functions out of City and into separate companies. There's never been any suggestion that's part of the charges, and he clearly doesn't understand that CFM and CFS (assuming those are the companies he's referring to) cross-charged their services to the CFG
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It's normal prudent business to outsource at fixed cost. I'm sure that shitty hotel he owns outsourced it's restaurant offering to Tom Kerridge? It no doubt outsources cleaning, laundry and reservation services, amongst many others.

He'll be employing every accounting trick in the book to reduce HMRC liabilities.

The hypocrisy is strong with this one.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I have always thought that it was interesting and very suspicious that when Liverpool failed Uefa ffp in 2014/14 , they suddenly submitted further information showing that nearly £50m of those losses was spent on a stadium that was never built . First off that's a lot of money to spend with nothing to show, not even a peice of land was bought. And secondly why wasn't this huge ammount showing in the initial accounts submitted. Was this ever investigated further by the UEFA or the PL.
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You know the answer,,,
 
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