PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[bluenova]

Throughout the history of football rich people have bought football clubs, made investments , club wins trophies, I don't have a problem with that.
The sport has been hijacked by anti competitive businesses, rags and dippers etc to financially enrich themselves. It's wrong.

But it was hugely different when the owner of a few local car franchises could buy a couple of players, and push for a title. Even Jack Walker and his family only spent the equivalent of about £150-200m on Blackburn (and that's including inflation).

Now there are only a few hundred people on the whole planet who could safely take a Premier League club from mid table to the top.

 

[supercity88]

I’ve bored people to tears I’m sure already but my position has always been that Lewis and his colleagues must have believed they have something new and completing to offer to advise the PL to move forward. While I accept humans can be prone to hubris, I struggle to believe that he is throwing his reputation on the line for a chance to rerun the UEFA case, especially as he really doesn’t need the case.


Again, maybe boring people but I just don’t believe the PL advanced due to pressure from other clubs, albeit I’m sure it played a part. For me it’s most likely that this case was a desperate last ditch attempt to try and stall (with the dream of killing) an independent regulator coming in and risking their cash cow.

Ive thought for a while that PSR at least in its current form was not long for this world - the landscape has just changed too much since it was implemented. A not guilty verdict probably pushes it over the edge to a reformed set of rules, perhaps along the lines of L1/L2 whereby you have strict wages vs turnover rules and profit targets, but owners can invest as ‘turnover’ so long as the money is converted to equity. Certainly many of those who supported PSR initially would have your arm off to be free of it now.

There is something new in that we've had to provide documentation to the PL that we hadn't before. That might not actually be anything new at all. But it should provide the context and further details to put the missing pieces of the hacked email puzzle together. The fact the club seems comfortable should reassure everyone. We've made it as hard as possible for the PL to get their hands on this information, but that doesn't necessarily make us guilty, it just shows we're not willing to play ball on matters we feel have already been dealt with.

Lewis has been involved in this for a long time. There were two arbitration hearings in 2020, a hearing at the Commercial Court in Spring 2021 and then a hearing at the Court of Appeal in Summer 2021. This has been a lengthy process already behind the scenes in order to get to a position where City have had to provide further documents to the PL in order to allow them to carry out their investigation. It's not really a win or bust case for Lewis. He's essentially just leading the investigation. If we "win" and the charges are dropped then Lewis doesn't "lose" as such.

 

[hammocity]

Put up or shut up I say, fed up to the back teeth of all the fuckin innuendo and the whole of the red lickspittle media proclaiming our guilt from the rooftops..
it’s a disgrace how these cunts get away with slagging the best run club in the world, without a single offence either revealed or proven..!

It’s not taking this long because there are 115 alleged, yes, alleged offences, it’s taking this long because they can’t lay a glove on City no matter how hard they try …

City will be proven innocent of every charge but that won’t matter as they will just say we got away with it again … FUCK EM .. !

I like the cut of your jib sir, excellent.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Is that not 3 comments?

I counted 115.

 

[Dribble]

The other clubs won't care. Owners below the Rags, Dippers, Tarquins and Spuds are happy to just get the revenue from the PL. They'll agree to any set of rules as long as the money is still there. Don't forget how happy they all were with the Rags hoovering up all the trophies for 20+ years and being able to outspend everyone - we would 100% be watching another Bayern Munich situation where the club just outspend every other club and buy any young talent and everyone is happy with the odd club chasing them close. If it wasn't for Abramovic I'm sure they'd now be on 30+ titles and the Piss Can would still be in charge.

The difference being is back then the Premier League supporting cast could still dream of winning the lottery & joining the scrap for honours at the top table.

Now even the richest club in the world have found their wealth is useless, because the Cartel Clubs have introduced financial rules designed to stop anyone from being able to challenge them.

Newcastle are reportedly being forced to sell SEVEN players, Almiron, Joelinton, Wilson, Botman, Isak, Guimarães & Trippier JUST to avoid the same PSR fate as Everton, let alone to allow them to be able to reinvest in their ageing injury hit squad.

The question is, would you rather the PL as it is now with FFP/PSR, or as it was 20 years ago when ambitious clubs were allowed to dream?

UEFA were rightly concerned about clubs like Leeds, Portsmouth, Fiorentina, Parma, Rangers etc over extending themselves, with over-ambitious owners levying huge debts on their clubs, sending several to the wall as they chased the dream. This is what the original iteration of FFP was supposed to prevent, not minted owners investing their own money to compete with the elite.

I do believe there should be a level of financial controls to prevent clubs from spending themselves into extinction, but not what we have today, where only the clubs at the very top stand to benefit.

 

[Dribble]

Has Masters confirmed whether he's confirmed anything?

The whole thing is corporate comedy beyond a Monty Python scale...

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The whole thing is corporate comedy beyond a Monty Python scale...

With the charges as the Dead Parrot.

 

[flb]

The difference being is back then the Premier League supporting cast could still dream of winning the lottery & joining the scrap for honours at the top table.

Now even the richest club in the world have found their wealth is useless, because the Cartel Clubs have introduced financial rules designed to stop anyone from being able to challenge them.

The question is, would you rather the PL as it is now with FFP/PSR, or as it was 20 years ago when ambitious clubs were allowed to dream?

UEFA were rightly concerned about clubs like Leeds, Portsmouth, Fiorentina, Parma, Rangers etc over extending themselves, with over-ambitious owners levying huge debts on their clubs, sending several to the wall as they chased the dream. This is what the original iteration of FFP was supposed to prevent, not minted owners investing their own money to compete with the elite.

I do believe there should be a level of financial controls to prevent clubs from spending themselves into extinction, but not what we have today, where only the clubs at the very top stand to benefit.

Good post, but who are the several clubs that went to the wall ? My idea of going to the wall is a business closing down permanently , liquidation , door shut with redundancies, Leeds being the perfect example, yes there financial situation meant relegation down the divisions, but they never went to the wall, its called business, sometimes you fail and suffer the consequences. Its nothing more than a closed shop now, which is a disgrace. Newcastle will never ever live the dream that we have, and its such a shame tbph. Sport IS business whether we like it or not, agreed, there has to be a new system implemented, football is very gradually killing the dreams for the match going fan. One of the CL places, even a fifth place maybe should go to the winner of the FA Cup, that opens the dream for far more clubs than just the top four.

 

[cheekybids]

Throughout the history of football rich people have bought football clubs, made investments , club wins trophies, I don't have a problem with that.
The sport has been hijacked by anti competitive businesses, rags and dippers etc to financially enrich themselves. It's wrong.

Throughout history clubs have fallen on hard times, dropped through the leagues, lost league status & no one gave a fuck. They certainly didn’t give a fuck when we did it & yet now we have fake concern hiding protectionism.

 

[norman]

Good post, but who are the several clubs that went to the wall ? My idea of going to the wall is a business closing down permanently , liquidation , door shut with redundancies, Leeds being the perfect example, yes there financial situation meant relegation down the divisions, but they never went to the wall, its called business, sometimes you fail and suffer the consequences. Its nothing more than a closed shop now, which is a disgrace. Newcastle will never ever live the dream that we have, and its such a shame tbph. Sport IS business whether we like it or not, agreed, there has to be a new system implemented, football is very gradually killing the dreams for the match going fan. One of the CL places, even a fifth place maybe should go to the winner of the FA Cup, that opens the dream for far more clubs than just the top four.

And City to a degree back in the day
spot on

 

[halfcenturyup]

The difference being is back then the Premier League supporting cast could still dream of winning the lottery & joining the scrap for honours at the top table.

Now even the richest club in the world have found their wealth is useless, because the Cartel Clubs have introduced financial rules designed to stop anyone from being able to challenge them.

Newcastle are reportedly being forced to sell SEVEN players, Almiron, Joelinton, Wilson, Botman, Isak, Guimarães & Trippier JUST to avoid the same PSR fate as Everton, let alone to allow them to be able to reinvest in their ageing injury hit squad.

The question is, would you rather the PL as it is now with FFP/PSR, or as it was 20 years ago when ambitious clubs were allowed to dream?

UEFA were rightly concerned about clubs like Leeds, Portsmouth, Fiorentina, Parma, Rangers etc over extending themselves, with over-ambitious owners levying huge debts on their clubs, sending several to the wall as they chased the dream. This is what the original iteration of FFP was supposed to prevent, not minted owners investing their own money to compete with the elite.

I do believe there should be a level of financial controls to prevent clubs from spending themselves into extinction, but not what we have today, where only the clubs at the very top stand to benefit.

Damn. Can't argue with that, either.

 

[hammocity]

Nothing has stopped me wearing my City colours out and about. Nobody has said a word to me, if they do I will happily engage them in a robust conversation about the merits of the allegations against our great club, failing that they will get what I have always found to an effective repost to anti City sentiments right back to my youth, a fist in the face.

I always wear this badge, it’s not offensive as it’s so small but it just feels good to know my loathing of those fuckers is on display.

 

[Manchester33]

The problem is that the money involved is at multi-billionaire/state level. Our owners put in around £1.5b and in addition could influence sponsorship deals from Abu Dhabi to add a significant sum on top of that. But Liverpool, for example, have three times the revenue that had in 2008.

If a team from mid-table, even a big city one with the fans/infrastructure, wanted to compete, then they could need £4b+ invested. That's absolutely crazy - and way above even your suggestions.

Even then, Newcastle could afford whatever they want - but Everton could quite easily bankrupted themselves well before they got anywhere near the lower figures you suggested.

The only way you're going to get competition back in any meaningful way, is to reduce the revenues of the richest clubs. Either football is a sport, or it's a business, but it can't be both.

A sensible form of FFP would be:

1 - Owners can 'invest' money into their club without reprimand.
2 - Clubs who go into debt/loan money have a spend limit/strict transfer limits they must adhere to until debt is repaid in full

That would safeguard our clubs from extinction, which was the guise FFP was brought in to achieve (we all know the real purpose of FFP though).

 

[hammocity]

A sensible form of FFP would be:

1 - Owners can 'invest' money into their club without reprimand.
2 - Clubs who go into debt/loan money have a spend limit/strict transfer limits they must adhere to until debt is repaid in full

That would safeguard our clubs from extinction, which was the guise FFP was brought in to achieve (we all know the real purpose of FFP though).

Far too sensible and divisive for the debt laden red shirts.

 

[blue b4 the moon]

Do it the right way v The Cheats,
media week.

And surprise (not) look who our next game is.

 

[Mancity1980]

The lack of information from city and the EPL as well as the curious “we can’t tell you the date yet” makes me think that the footballing authority are trying to sort out a face saving deal and we are playing hard ball. Interesting times ahead blues, it wouldn’t surprise me if there is suddenly an unexpected announcement.

 

[ZanteWeatherman]

Me too, alongside the inevitable non-cooperation fine again.

Tribalism will use it as a stick to poke at us forever anyway.

Everyone seems to be banging on about us not co-operating with the PL enquiries. However, after the CAS bollocks, I suspect we would have. Wtf. Does anyone know, I suspect not.

 

[cheekybids]

The difference being is back then the Premier League supporting cast could still dream of winning the lottery & joining the scrap for honours at the top table.

Now even the richest club in the world have found their wealth is useless, because the Cartel Clubs have introduced financial rules designed to stop anyone from being able to challenge them.

Newcastle are reportedly being forced to sell SEVEN players, Almiron, Joelinton, Wilson, Botman, Isak, Guimarães & Trippier JUST to avoid the same PSR fate as Everton, let alone to allow them to be able to reinvest in their ageing injury hit squad.

The question is, would you rather the PL as it is now with FFP/PSR, or as it was 20 years ago when ambitious clubs were allowed to dream?

UEFA were rightly concerned about clubs like Leeds, Portsmouth, Fiorentina, Parma, Rangers etc over extending themselves, with over-ambitious owners levying huge debts on their clubs, sending several to the wall as they chased the dream. This is what the original iteration of FFP was supposed to prevent, not minted owners investing their own money to compete with the elite.

I do believe there should be a level of financial controls to prevent clubs from spending themselves into extinction, but not what we have today, where only the clubs at the very top stand to benefit.

I’m sorry but I don’t believe they were concerned in the slightest about Leeds or any other clubs.

 

[bluenova]

A sensible form of FFP would be:

1 - Owners can 'invest' money into their club without reprimand.
2 - Clubs who go into debt/loan money have a spend limit/strict transfer limits they must adhere to until debt is repaid in full

That would safeguard our clubs from extinction, which was the guise FFP was brought in to achieve (we all know the real purpose of FFP though).

For years before it was introduced FFP was about debt. Platini called United and Madrid cheats because of it.

And then for some reason (I can'£ imagin£ what it wa£), things changed.

I'm still not convinced we just let a spending race develop. The reality is that the huge gap to the super clubs is new, and it's at a level that is unbreachable for almost all owners. We need to stop using Newcastle as a benchmark for owners with their hands tied - their owners have vastly more disposable cash than anyone else in the World.

If you look at the list of richest people in the UK, there are probably only two that are rich enough to take on a Premier League club successfully. That can't be sustainable.

 

[johnevans]

Throughout history clubs have fallen on hard times, dropped through the leagues, lost league status & no one gave a fuck. They certainly didn’t give a fuck when we did it & yet now we have fake concern hiding protectionism.

Correct on all counts.

I remember a few years back when Accrington Stanley was facing financial ruin mainly because of, among other things, a huge tax bill owed to HMRC (somewhere north of £300k, if I recall correctly)

The Accy supporters organised money collections at various Premier League club grounds, including ours. I forget who we were playing (it was a night match) and loads of Blues tipped up any change they had to help save Accrington.

As I threw in a couple of quid, I jokingly suggested to the young lad with the collection bucket that he might be more successful more quickly by standing outside the players' entrance and asking Yaya Toure to donate a week's wages to the cause. But as ever, there's often more than a grain of truth said in jest.

The disparity between the wealth of the Premier League and the rest of the English football pyramid over the past three decades has been (for me at least) distasteful.

But then again, not as distasteful as the sanctimony of the 'Big Four' (Red Tops and Levy's Spurs) and their protectionist, attempted 'justifications' for their collective actions in slamming doors of opportunity in the faces of the rest of the football 'family' they love to spout on about, the f**king hypocrites..

May they all rot in their collective Hell.