Russian invasion of Ukraine

As to Tucker his eyes said it all - in a sentence "WTF". I've just actually "interviewed" Ernst Stavro Blofeld
I think Tucker spent a lot of the remaining time in the interview wondering where the white fluffy cat was.
 
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Churchlawtonblue said:
So you believe what you posted tho. Do you believe in his reasons for his invasion of Ukraine? How about his claims that they have not targeted Ukrainian infrastructure? Do you think Ukraine should be free to make its own mind up about joining the EU and Nato in the future or do you think that a country lead by a dictator that has invaded and caused thousands of deaths in an illegal war should have a say?
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I believe the truth will lie in the middle - Boris didn't 'tank' or 'sabotage', but there is wider interest from the US/EU/UK in the war continuing. US's and Victoria Nuland's involvement in Ukraine in Maidan is enough for me to question such.

Russia has targeted infrastructure obviously, as does any side in a war. Yes, Ukraine should be left alone to have its say on the EU - sadly that's not the case and never will be.

Nato question is a much bigger one that I haven't formed a clear opinion on. Nato expansion is a thing. Ukraine joining Nato wouldn't be a step toward peace.
 
From "The Analyst":

FRONTLINE UPDATE 9-10 FEB

Bilohorivka area around the deep quarry on the eastern front saw Ukraine retake a
Processing plant only to lose it again because there were allegedly no artillery shells left to support the operation. This needs verification.
North of Bakhmut at Vesele the Russians have been pushed back by a round half a kilometre.
At Bohdanivka near Bakhmut the Russians gained another field and tree lines.
Avdivka is worsening quickly. The Russians have taken land adjacent to the coke plant and have retained a foothold in the towns housing area to the plant’s south east. Aviationtag is hammering the city with bombs and continuing use of thermobaric weapons is causing heavy destruction. Even basements offer no protection from the thermobarics as they suck the air right out and suffocate anyone sheltering there. Civilians left in the city have pretty much lost their chance to be evacuated. The situation is deteriorating daily.
Most of the rest of the southern front has remained relatively quiet with the usual back and forth exchanges.
Krynky however has seen a big change as the Ukrainian forces have managed to widen and deepen their presence, pushing the Russians back inland by several hundred meters.

The Carlson interview was nothing but a bag of Putins lies and distortions. He basically re-wrote history to match his excuses and narrative, not one thing he said was true.

Slava Ukraini !
 
Bruno39 said:
I believe the truth will lie in the middle - Boris didn't 'tank' or 'sabotage', but there is wider interest from the US/EU/UK in the war continuing. US's and Victoria Nuland's involvement in Ukraine in Maidan is enough for me to question such.

Russia has targeted infrastructure obviously, as does any side in a war. Yes, Ukraine should be left alone to have its say on the EU - sadly that's not the case and never will be.

Nato question is a much bigger one that I haven't formed a clear opinion on. Nato expansion is a thing. Ukraine joining Nato wouldn't be a step toward peace.
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Putin said they haven't targeted infrastructure tho. And Putin clearly started the war, not the west. Your arguments are weak and fall apart under the smallest bit of scutiny.

My hope is that the west turns up the pressure militarily and economically on Russia and that Putin is deposed. It would be pretty easy to do with the right will. What's you thoughts on this, do you want Putin deposed?
 
Bruno39 said:
Ceasefire of this particular conflict and probably something similar to what was agreed and signed off in 2014 in the Minsk agreements for starters I'd guess.
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In 1994 Russia and Ukraine signed the Budapest Memorandum, part of the returning of USSR Nuclear weapons to Russia was that Russia ( and the US/UK ) would gurantee Ukraines borders. Russia broke that agreement in 2014 by invading Ukraine and annexing land

in 2014 the Minsk Agreements were signed. in 2022 Russia broke that agreement by invading Ukraine and trying to steal land.

What makes you think a 3rd attempt would work?
 
Bruno39 said:
I believe the truth will lie in the middle - Boris didn't 'tank' or 'sabotage', but there is wider interest from the US/EU/UK in the war continuing. US's and Victoria Nuland's involvement in Ukraine in Maidan is enough for me to question such.

Russia has targeted infrastructure obviously, as does any side in a war. Yes, Ukraine should be left alone to have its say on the EU - sadly that's not the case and never will be.

Nato question is a much bigger one that I haven't formed a clear opinion on. Nato expansion is a thing. Ukraine joining Nato wouldn't be a step toward peace.
Click to expand...

Are you aware that before 2014 there was pretty much no interest from Ukraine in joining NATO? public opinion was at about 15% to join? Russia invading in 2014 was the catalist for Ukraine asking to Join NATO.

The only reason NATO is expanding is that countries feel threatened by Russia, if Russia wasn't a threat NATO wouldn't be expanging.
 
Bruno39 said:
I believe the truth will lie in the middle - Boris didn't 'tank' or 'sabotage', but there is wider interest from the US/EU/UK in the war continuing
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Gawd.

The truth is in the middle between facts and lies?

A vacuum of critical thinking.

The EU want the war to continue? Try to use your brain, just for a moment.
 
grunge said:
In 1994 Russia and Ukraine signed the Budapest Memorandum, part of the returning of USSR Nuclear weapons to Russia was that Russia ( and the US/UK ) would gurantee Ukraines borders. Russia broke that agreement in 2014 by invading Ukraine and annexing land

in 2014 the Minsk Agreements were signed. in 2022 Russia broke that agreement by invading Ukraine and trying to steal land.

What makes you think a 3rd attempt would work?
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Nothing supports this idea at all.
 
How do people think this war will end? With a total victory for Ukraine? Events on the ground suggest that this is extremely unlikely. So the war goes on and Ukrainians continue to die in large numbers indefinitely? This is totally unsustainable. As some of us were arguing from the start.
 
hgblue said:
How do people think this war will end? With a total victory for Ukraine? Events on the ground suggest that this is extremely unlikely. So the war goes on and Ukrainians continue to die in large numbers indefinitely? This is totally unsustainable. As some of us were arguing from the start.
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It depends who has the will to last the longest. In reality, if the west had the will to continue supporting an ally, we could bring Russia to it's knees. It's economy is on life support through a war time economy, this will keep it going for a couple of years but is not sustainable long term. It just isn't.

The west's commitment to this war is virtually nothing. The USA would spend more destroying old stock. They don't send them their latest equipment, it's a win win without sending a single soldier to go and do the dirty work. The problem the West has is a lack of resolve, I guess that's natural of living in a democracy. Governments can change and alternative voices exist with a platform, as opposed to filthy dictatorships that murder and imprison everybody against them.

We have paid agents such as Tucker Carlson free to spread filthy dictators lies and misinformation for millions to view, if he was on the other side doing the opposite he'd be in deep Siberia by now.

As long as Ukraine have the desire to fight for their existence, we should back them to the hilt, otherwise History will not judge us favourably.
 
hgblue said:
How do people think this war will end? With a total victory for Ukraine? Events on the ground suggest that this is extremely unlikely. So the war goes on and Ukrainians continue to die in large numbers indefinitely? This is totally unsustainable. As some of us were arguing from the start.
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So what's your proposal? Surrender to Russia, hand their entire nation over to Putin, granting him a staging point to the Balkans and other former Soviet occupied territories?

Because that is what he wants. You're doing the Ukrainians a major disservice; they are fighting to defend their homes and families. Those Ukrainians who couldn't fight were slaughtered by the Russians in numerous war crimes.

The war ends when Putin and the Russians fuck off out of Ukraine. Any other conclusion is unthinkable.
 
hgblue said:
How do people think this war will end? With a total victory for Ukraine? Events on the ground suggest that this is extremely unlikely. So the war goes on and Ukrainians continue to die in large numbers indefinitely? This is totally unsustainable. As some of us were arguing from the start.
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The outcome of this war us not in Ukraines hand, it is wholly dependent on the rest of the world. Back Ukraine fully, then Putin will be defeated and forced to withdraw.

Failure to give Ukraine what it needs in a timely manner will see Putin prevail.

It's up to us
 
hgblue said:
How do people think this war will end? With a total victory for Ukraine? Events on the ground suggest that this is extremely unlikely. So the war goes on and Ukrainians continue to die in large numbers indefinitely? This is totally unsustainable. As some of us were arguing from the start.
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Actually you were arguing quite stridently about Russian military superiority which Ukraine would be unable to resist, so less of the Mystic Meg Billy Big Bollocks.
 
Bruno39 said:
I believe the truth will lie in the middle - Boris didn't 'tank' or 'sabotage', but there is wider interest from the US/EU/UK in the war continuing. US's and Victoria Nuland's involvement in Ukraine in Maidan is enough for me to question such.

Russia has targeted infrastructure obviously, as does any side in a war. Yes, Ukraine should be left alone to have its say on the EU - sadly that's not the case and never will be.

Nato question is a much bigger one that I haven't formed a clear opinion on. Nato expansion is a thing. Ukraine joining Nato wouldn't be a step toward peace.
Click to expand...
Hi mate, you seem to have overlooked my question:

Would you seriously trust Russia to keep to any agreement it purports to make?

It’s a pretty straightforward question.
 
hgblue said:
How do people think this war will end? With a total victory for Ukraine? Events on the ground suggest that this is extremely unlikely. So the war goes on and Ukrainians continue to die in large numbers indefinitely? This is totally unsustainable. As some of us were arguing from the start.
Click to expand...
It's quite obvious that there is a real risk that Trump is going to get in again this year. If that happens then all bets are off and I'd expect that this is why Putin has conducted this interview. It looks to me that Russia is slowing its advances because it is biding its time and resources waiting for the right political environment to continue the war at full pelt.

This interview by Putin is all about aligning his narrative with what could happen in the US election. The US and Europe right now is exceptionally anti-Russian and he needs to change that. With Europe that's very unlikely to happen compared to the US but Russia is fighting a military based war and Europe actually has far less weight militarily. He isn't going to alter Europe but he clearly can influence the US through its next president.

Let's face it, Europe is not resourced militarily to help Ukraine in a similar fashion to the US. US support of NATO is key if NATO is to support Ukraine. This puts the US election into the crosshairs for Putin. Trump is critical of NATO and would likely take a more isolated approach and that would be extremely beneficial to Putin.

Obviously the war will end with either Russian retreat or the fall of Ukraine. It seems though that Russia will only retreat when Putin is no longer in power and Ukraine will only fall if it loses support. At the moment I think the latter is more likely but it's still unlikely because Europe and the US won't want to be seen to fail.

This war isn't going to end anytime soon unfortunately.
 
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