Middle East Conflict
- Thread starter The blue phantom
- Start date
Give themselves plausible deniability for when these crimes have to be explained in court.
SebastianBlue
President, International Julian Alvarez Fan Club
- Joined
- 25 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 57,736
The far-right contingent which dominates the current Israeli government--of which Netanyahu has been a member and has courted since his entry in to Israeli politics--is making a play to both lock up orthodox and extremist support within Israel and force the US' hand when it comes to continued political and military support (partly in a bid to further weaken American progressive support of Biden).
True adherents of far-right ideology comprise a relative minority within Israel, but whilst Netanyahu and the far-right coalition remain in power (specifically Likud, Otzma Yehudit, Noam, and State Camp), they will have an outsized influence on government policy and handling of the war in Gaza, as well as programs in the West Bank and Golan Heights.
Not even Netanyahu is actually fully in control of prominent members of the coalition at this point, especially the likes of Smotrich, Galant, and Cohen, who are increasingly pushing what can only be described as wholly illegal and genocidal proposals across a number of policy areas, not least of which the unconscionable approach to delivery of aid to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip (and the threatened full-scale military operation in Rafah).
It is telling that they are intensifying their support of Trump in the upcoming US presidential election, with the likes of Ben-Gvir recently claiming Trump would be better for Israel than Biden, and some polling (although somewhat dubious) indicating a growing contingent of Israelis are buying in to that argument.
Despite the calls from US Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, and highest ranking Jewish American in government, for new elections, Netanyahu and co will continue to use the Hamas war as justification for not holding elections (especially as they refuse to actually allow a substantive investigation in to the intelligence and military failures that allowed the 7 October attacks, or the failure of the IDF to appropriately respond to them on the day, until after the war is declared over). That's not getting in to the separate (and now growing) charges of corruption, incompetence, and maleficence that have been hanging over Netanyahu and his cronies for years now. Although the trial over his corruption charges has nominally resumed in the last few months, it is being slow-walked under pretense of emergency necessity (Netanyahu, and other implicated, are not available to mount an adequate defence until after war has been "won").
And they will continue to do everything in their power to extend and expand the conflict to prevent their ouster, even as Netanyahu's approval rating craters (and internal calls for new elections mount).
The current Israeli government is just as invested in the war dragging on as Hamas leadership is, if not perhaps more so, given each passing week without real, concrete opposition from their main allies--specifically the US and UK--allows for the further functional destruction of Gaza as a habitable region, strengthening their abhorrent justification for the removal of Palestinians from the territory entirely, enabling redevelopment plans that are openly being proposed right now (and also creating a "security" pretense for accelerated annexation of the West Bank and displacement of Palestinians there).
There is currently no path to peace or any sort of unified state solution with Israeli and Palestinians security and autonomy whilst Hamas remains in power in Gaza and the far-right coalition remains in power in Israel.
And, as it stands, I believe both sets of leadership can be reasonably (and legally) accused of committing genocide against the Palestinian people. But, as Hamas has been and always will be an extremist organisation, developing in to a terrorist death cult, it is far more concerning that Israel is carrying out what many rational observers (even within Israel) class as genocidal program under the guise of the Hamas war.
Without regime change on both sides there is only one way this goes in the near future: the complete displacement of surviving Palestinians--with little hope of resettlement to Gaza or previously occupied areas of the West Bank--in conflict with international laws and the genocide convention, and the continued degradation of Israel's security and safety.
Given that Netanyahu actively supported Hamas' ascendence in Gaza, and maintained policies that helped build their capacity to attack Israel--primarily as a means of ensuring he had a useful enemy to legitimise his claims that he and the Likud party were the only entities that could ensure Israel's security and ensure there was no viable path to two-state negotiations, which he has always opposed--Netanyahu and his cronies should eventually be answering for their crimes alongside Hamas leadership at The Hague.
But I am unsure if that will actually ever come to pass, unfortunately.
Mind boggling. A New Yorker talking about driving out people who've already been driven out.
I actually think while Israel will continue to exist, it will be a very miserable place. Any Israeli with a shred of decency will surely be unhappy living alongside this woman and her ilk.
Postman Pep
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 10 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 5,706
They have an impressive global scouting network to be fair ....
How 90 Peruvians became the latest Jewish settlers
When a delegation of rabbis travelled to Lima to convert a group of South American Indians to Judaism, they added just one condition: come and live with us in Israel. Neri Livneh tracks them down.
www.theguardian.com
If you mean Netanyahu fostered Hamas because they were (supposedly) against a two-state solution, that makes Netanyahu the father of October 7th. (That's not the same as the conspiracy theory that all the lapses in security that facilitated the Hamas attack were deliberate lapses.)
halfcenturyup
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 12 Oct 2009
- Messages
- 15,039
Only the Americans and Iranians can solve this.
I understand that this is an opinion forum rather than pure facts. I also understand that humans are biased and prejudiced, sometimes they are so biased that they lose any empathy for their opponents position. (One man's fair tackle is another man's definite penalty depending on who you support). So please don't take offence when I point out that your view and most of the posters on here is rather Palestinian biased and therefore lacks balance.
So two points
1) Who actually owns or is entitled to Israel/Palestine is disputed and most 'unbiased' opinions agree there is no correct answer. No solution. Both entitled.
2) Saying 'that Israel has never wanted a two state solution' is wrong. I have researched that assertion and it is just not correct. What does seem true is that there has always been 'one staters' on both sides whose aim to sabotage any 'two state' solution/proposal as quick as possible. I think 1948's two state solution lasted hours before they were fighting again.
Finally, yes, a solution must be found but with so many 'one staters' and following October 7th that number of 'one staters' is growing. Citizens on both sides seem to be coming to the conclusion that it is 'them or us'.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Gorton_Tubster
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 Apr 2012
- Messages
- 19,250
- Location
- Riding the blue tidal wave.
- Team supported
- Manchester City
Tbh after the Oct 7th attacks there was bias towards Israel, myself included. What Israel are doing is way way beyoond, but tbh thats my opinion. But it is why there is currently a lot of hatred/dislike/anti Isreali feeling right now.
Like Oct 7th, its seeing all the people suffering at the hands of dickheads in charge. tbh Bias is out of the window in my opionion, its about humanity, those who have it and those who dont.
urban genie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 11 May 2008
- Messages
- 35,166
For balance Zomlot has been accused of being a bit of a dick
SebastianBlue
President, International Julian Alvarez Fan Club
- Joined
- 25 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 57,736
As Gaza is destroyed, Israel is killing dozens of children in the West Bank | Arwa Mahdawi
A 12-year-old Palestinian boy was shot while lighting a firework. ‘Cases like these happen quite regularly, but no one’s hearing about them,’ according to the Israeli rights group B’Tselem
amp.theguardian.com
Spike in Israeli lethal force against Palestinians in Occupied West Bank
Israeli forces have over the past four months unleashed a brutal wave of violence against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank.
www.amnesty.org
Watchdog: Under 1% of Israel army probes yield prosecution
An Israeli rights group says that Israeli soldiers accused of harming Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza over the last five years have been indicted in less than 1% of the hundreds of complaints against them.
apnews.com
Postman Pep
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 10 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 5,706
In isolation an incredible sentence. There is only one unbiased way to answer this point I have raised and that is to say it is complicated. Under international law Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land .... it really isn't that difficult.
Did your research amount to those unbiased sources who insist on the use of disputed rather than occupied territories?
Maybe broaden your reading? Or just look at a series of maps detailing the facts on the ground that have made a 2 state solution increasingly unviable.
Postman Pep
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 10 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 5,706
This is fucked up
If we concentrate on my point 1 rather than point 2 (to avoid getting bogged down). Is there really much difference between your 'unbiased' assertion that it is 'complicated' to my 'unbiased' assertion that there is "no correct answer'?
Also, I'll put out my stance on where I stand and you (and other posters if they wish) can tell me where you differ (if at all).
a) Israel should be recognised by all parties as a country/state with their own borders which they themselves respect and all other parties respect.
b) Palestine should be recognised by all parties as a country/state with their own borders which they themselves respect and all other parties respect.
That's what I believe. Do you agree or have some other belief?
Postman Pep
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 10 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 5,706
Lets add failure to spot my sarcasm to the list of things you are struggling to grasp. I went on to say that it really isn't that difficult. The international position is that all territory that Israel has annexed post June 1967 is *illegally occupied*. It is only disputed by the occupiers and their supporters.
Based on those 1967 borders absolutely but we are dealing with reality here. What is the biggest hindrance to a just settlement? Is it words spoken by politicians and written on charters or 57 years of cold hard facts on the ground?
How do you make a viable state out of this? If was a group of islands separated by water sure .... but it isn't.
Postman Pep
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 10 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 5,706
Israel does.
They don't agree on respecting their own borders, so that's a great start to your unbiased wishlist.