Bernard Halford

[Keeper!]

The PL are currently checkin' their rule book to see if they can get us past 120 infringements.

If the rules of today were in place back them we would have been %ucked, proper &ucked and deservidly so.

Mass fraud occurred under Swales and it destroyed one of England's great clubs.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

@BringBackSwales
I'm pretty sure I was at the supporters club meeting when the vote was taken to ban the London branch.
Only one delegate from each branch could vote so I wasn't involved in the actual vote but I was against it and spoke against it. In fact yes I was there because I just remembered that everyone unable to vote had to leave the room while the voting took place!
I maybe wrong but think Kevin Cummins had something to do with the newsletter?
I recall there was an olive branch not to ban them if the officials from the London branch stood down and were replaced by new officials, presumably ones prepared to toe the line...... this was rejected and the ban took place.
I didn't rejoin the supporters club after that and a few years later when writing for the fanzine Blue Print, I produced my best headline writing a scathing piece about the supporters club under the title "The Little (Closed) Shop Of Horrocks"

 

[BringBackSwales]

@BringBackSwales
I'm pretty sure I was at the supporters club meeting when the vote was taken to ban the London branch.
Only one delegate from each branch could vote so I wasn't involved in the actual vote but I was against it and spoke against it. In fact yes I was there because I just remembered that everyone unable to vote had to leave the room while the voting took place!
I maybe wrong but think Kevin Cummins had something to do with the newsletter?
I recall there was an olive branch not to ban them if the officials from the London branch stood down and were replaced by new officials, presumably ones prepared to toe the line...... this was rejected and the ban took place.
I didn't rejoin the supporters club after that and a few years later when writing for the fanzine Blue Print, I produced my best headline writing a scathing piece about the supporters club under the title "The Little (Closed) Shop Of Horrocks"

Hi MES, I think I know you, were you in the Leicester and Rugby branch and used to talk about Gordon Smith a lot?! Yeah I think Kevin was on the committee, the controversial newsletter editor was I think called Julian Wood. I wasn’t on the committee so wasn’t in that meeting but I was told by a lad that was there that Horrocks stated to the meeting that if the vote went in favour of London staying he would quit, so then the vote became not about London going but about Horrocks staying. Because of that the vote went against and the London branch was expelled.

Edit: different Kevin, I think Kevin Cummins was in the branch after I left it. I think there was a Kevin Whelan on the committee in my day

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

Hi MES, I think I know you, were you in the Leicester and Rugby branch and used to talk about Gordon Smith a lot?! Yeah I think Kevin was on the committee, the controversial newsletter editor was I think called Julian Wood. I wasn’t on the committee so wasn’t in that meeting but I was told by a lad that was there that Horrocks stated to the meeting that if the vote went in favour of London staying he would quit, so then the vote became not about London going but about Horrocks staying. Because of that the vote went against and the London branch was expelled.

Yes that was me!

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

Had he told the truth about fiddling the gates he'd have been incriminating himself

Just curious, but was fiddling the gates a regular occurrence or just a notorious one-off?

I was present for the Charlton Promotion game and the 86 FA Youth Final, but those are the only games that ever seems to get mentioned as fact.

I also recall a strange article in the Guardian circa 88-89 which hinted at United's deliberate overstating of attendance (including all Season Ticket Holders, regardless of whether they attended) and City's alleged understating of attendance (essentially as a tax fiddle).
Obviously the article was written in such a manner that you couldn't quite tell if the author was being serious.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

"City's new regime felt they needed to acknowledge his longevity without any knowledge of what he got up to.

One time they got it very wrong, who on earth were they listening to to give him so much respect?

More concerned with public perception than actual reality, certainly back then.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

Just curious, but was fiddling the gates a regular occurrence or just a notorious one-off?

I was present for the Charlton Promotion game and the 86 FA Youth Final, but those are the only games that ever seems to get mentioned as fact.

I also recall a strange article in the Guardian circa 88-89 which hinted at United's deliberate overstating of attendance (including all Season Ticket Holders, regardless of whether they attended) and City's alleged understating of attendance (essentially as a tax fiddle).
Obviously the article was written in such a manner that you couldn't quite tell if the author was being serious.

It used to be a regular game around where I stood on the Kippax - guess what we thought the crowd was and guess what number they announce over the tannoy..... that figure was very often greeted with howls of laughter.

The FA Youth Cup final you mention was given as 18,000. Bernard Halford attended the team reunion in 2013 and admitted there was 28,000 there.
The other most obvious game was Bournemouth in 89, final home game of the season.
All three sides of the ground housing City fans are packed to the rafters.
Around 2-300 Bournemouth fans were in the Platt Lane stand.
So the capacity of 48,000 minus the Platt Lane capacity which was 7 or 8,000 (let's say 8,000) then the attendance given should have been around 40,000.
Instead the figure of 30,564 was announced.

 

[Keeper!]

It used to be a regular game around where I stood on the Kippax - guess what we thought the crowd was and guess what number they announce over the tannoy..... that figure was very often greeted with howls of laughter.

The FA Youth Cup final you mention was given as 18,000. Bernard Halford attended the team reunion in 2013 and admitted there was 28,000 there.
The other most obvious game was Bournemouth in 89, final home game of the season.
All three sides of the ground housing City fans are packed to the rafters.
Around 2-300 Bournemouth fans were in the Platt Lane stand.
So the capacity of 48,000 minus the Platt Lane capacity which was 7 or 8,000 (let's say 8,000) then the attendance given should have been around 40,000.
Instead the figure of 30,564 was announced.

And in those days cash admission was the norm.

Fiddling the tax man was easy but those two utter twats stole from the club they claimed to love and in doing so destroyed us.

 

[spiny]

My first job took me to London in the early 1980’s (in those days the job market was even more London-centric than now). The London branch was a mix of exiled Mancunians like me and people in the south east who supported City for various reasons, none of them glory hunters!). The 80’s was a pretty shit decade for City and it’s fair to say Swales was an extremely unpopular chairman. The London branch used to produce a newsletter to keep members in touch, and in the interests of free speech some of the articles were inevitably critical of Swales. Because of that the London branch was threatened with expulsion from the supporters club if any other articles criticised Swales - I recall that the branch were not prepared to be censored and we ended up being expelled from the supporters club, can’t remember how long for but I think it was a year or two. I recall that there were 2 people at the club who were particularly complicit in the expulsion of the London branch, and they were Bernard Halford and Frank Horrocks, the latter being in the position that Kevin Parker now holds. I never forgot those 2 and their role in the support of swales and their stifling of free speech; swales was a chairman who in my opinion ruined the club for decades, and it took us several more decades to recover from. Anyone who supported that clown and also stifled free speech isn’t a proper Blue in my opinion - as for lifting the fa cup, fucking hell. One other anecdote about Horrocks - I recall speaking to him in the social club after a home game, and him telling me (as someone born and bred in Manchester, City fan all my life, went to London as a 21 year old to get work) that as I lived in London I should support a London team!! Staggering attitude. Coming back to St Bernard if he ever did anything good for City I’d like to know what it was

Hence the rise of fanzines, finally a voice for fans not just from City.

The credit to editors of all fanzines should never be under estimated. It was the first uncensored source and a voice for fans. That the likes of King of the Kippax survived so long is a remarkable testimony to the passion of contributors and fans for their clubs.

Back in the early days of Swales, there was little reporting and comment apart from club press office releases to the MSM. The internet has changed everything.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

It used to be a regular game around where I stood on the Kippax - guess what we thought the crowd was and guess what number they announce over the tannoy..... that figure was very often greeted with howls of laughter.

The FA Youth Cup final you mention was given as 18,000. Bernard Halford attended the team reunion in 2013 and admitted there was 28,000 there.
The other most obvious game was Bournemouth in 89, final home game of the season.
All three sides of the ground housing City fans are packed to the rafters.
Around 2-300 Bournemouth fans were in the Platt Lane stand.
So the capacity of 48,000 minus the Platt Lane capacity which was 7 or 8,000 (let's say 8,000) then the attendance given should have been around 40,000.
Instead the figure of 30,564 was announced.

What was even worse was the previous home game against Palace was given as a 33k attendance yet the Bournemouth game was far fuller, absolute joke most attendances during the 80's and 90's.

And to be pedantic I think our capacity at the time was circa 52k, Platt Lane held around 9k so the crowd was probably even bigger than you suggested. It certainly wasn't 30k.

 

[paulchapo]

Rather than a lapdog, more chief spy.

Responsible for so many bad things about the Club during his time.

City's new regime felt they needed to acknowledge his longevity without any knowledge of what he got up to.

A ****, and I don't say it lightly about someone who is passed away.

The ticket office was an utter shambles under his tenure. The fiasco of the sale of the Gillingham play off final tickets summed it up. Work commitments aside I'd been home and away supporting us that season when the club needed us the most. In fact they'd literally begged us not to desert them. A hard core of 28,000 of us did, which could swell to 35,000 for key games. So I should have had no problem getting a ticket for Wembley then, considering we were getting 46,000 tickets.....wrong! The club decided we had to go to the ground to buy a ticket. A bit hard to do when I was 300 miles away working on a ship and didn't get off until the Wednesday before the final. As soon as I heard I continually phoned the ticket office every day. All I got was an engaged tone. It was the same for every bloody number at the club. The inevitable happened and we sold out. Being in Kent I thought I'd pop into Gillingham on the way home and buy one for their end but unbelievably they sold out their allocation as well.
Luckily after a desperate search and numerous phone calls I managed to get one last minute from Sue Wallace.
As you say I also don't like to speak ill of the dead and the man did work at the club for years but he was an utter disaster at the job he did.

 

[spiny]

I know there is a faction who portray Peter Swales as a some kind of martyr who died for his love of Manchester City and his quest to catch up with ManU. I've yet to read any facts to support this and anything beyond his self interest.

They forget the fact is that we were a dominant force in football when he took over and he oversaw a steady decline almost ending in oblivion. It was a time of cash, brown envelopes and backhanders, leaching cash from the club to which Halford was a party and continued to the end of his days at City.

Financial reporting was more "flexible" then. No wonder local businessmen sought ownership of their local cash cow club. Here was a cash extraction business with little scrutiny. Forget the myth that owners were fans like Blackburns Jack Walker, who knew, invested and played the game.

Easier for our new owners not to rake up the muck that serves no purpose. That is not to say us fans should not remember Halford as an acolyte of Swales who colluded in the financial bleeding and demise of City during their tenure. Never forget.

Bernard Halford = Mr Manchester City. Not for me.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

What was even worse was the previous home game against Palace was given as a 33k attendance yet the Bournemouth game was far fuller, absolute joke most attendances during the 80's and 90's.

And to be pedantic I think our capacity at the time was circa 52k, Platt Lane held around 9k so the crowd was probably even bigger than you suggested. It certainly wasn't 30k.

I seem to recall the capacity being reduced after the publication of the Taylor Report, especially the area around the Platt Lane-Main Stand(Apple Pie Corner), which had wooden floorboards.

We got 48,000 against United just a few months after the Bradford Fire, but by the time we played Liverpool in 87-88 and United in 89-80 the capacity was circa 45,000.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

The ticket office was an utter shambles under his tenure. The fiasco of the sale of the Gillingham play off final tickets summed it up. Work commitments aside I'd been home and away supporting us that season when the club needed us the most. In fact they'd literally begged us not to desert them. A hard core of 28,000 of us did, which could swell to 35,000 for key games. So I should have had no problem getting a ticket for Wembley then, considering we were getting 46,000 tickets.....wrong! The club decided we had to go to the ground to buy a ticket. A bit hard to do when I was 300 miles away working on a ship and didn't get off until the Wednesday before the final. As soon as I heard I continually phoned the ticket office every day. All I got was an engaged tone. It was the same for every bloody number at the club. The inevitable happened and we sold out. Being in Kent I thought I'd pop into Gillingham on the way home and buy one for their end but unbelievably they sold out their allocation as well.
Luckily after a desperate search and numerous phone calls I managed to get one last minute from Sue Wallace.
As you say I also don't like to speak ill of the dead and the man did work at the club for years but he was an utter disaster at the job he did.

My dad queued for 8 hours.

 

[Bluemanc100]

RIP Bernard

 

[horlock_was_super]

Well. This thread is an eye opener.
His widow was on the Ian Cheeseman vlog a couple of weeks back and Cheesy was all about cuddly Uncle Bernard with her.
I always thought the anti Bernard stuff was tongue in cheek to be honest - bloody hell I always thought it was down to that twat swales and him alone.
Every day’s a school day.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

I seem to recall the capacity being reduced after the publication of the Taylor Report, especially the area around the Platt Lane-Main Stand(Apple Pie Corner), which had wooden floorboards.

We got 48,000 against United just a few months after the Bradford Fire, but by the time we played Liverpool in 87-88 and United in 89-80 the capacity was circa 45,000.

Memory obviously hazy but you might be right. What I do remember is years of crowds being fiddled

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

The ticket office was an utter shambles under his tenure. The fiasco of the sale of the Gillingham play off final tickets summed it up. Work commitments aside I'd been home and away supporting us that season when the club needed us the most. In fact they'd literally begged us not to desert them. A hard core of 28,000 of us did, which could swell to 35,000 for key games. So I should have had no problem getting a ticket for Wembley then, considering we were getting 46,000 tickets.....wrong! The club decided we had to go to the ground to buy a ticket. A bit hard to do when I was 300 miles away working on a ship and didn't get off until the Wednesday before the final. As soon as I heard I continually phoned the ticket office every day. All I got was an engaged tone. It was the same for every bloody number at the club. The inevitable happened and we sold out. Being in Kent I thought I'd pop into Gillingham on the way home and buy one for their end but unbelievably they sold out their allocation as well.
Luckily after a desperate search and numerous phone calls I managed to get one last minute from Sue Wallace.
As you say I also don't like to speak ill of the dead and the man did work at the club for years but he was an utter disaster at the job he did.

Gillingham - average gate around 6000 - allowed season ticket.hokders to buy up to 10 tickets each and anyone with a Kent postcode could buy a ticket.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

Memory obviously hazy but you might be right. What I do remember is years of crowds being fiddled

@Scaring Europe to Death
Maybe @Gary James can help.
The Hillsborough disaster was only a few weeks before the Bournemouth game but I seem to recall instantly capacities of large terraces were cut. That's why I think the capacity went from 52 to 48 in between the two games.
Happy to be corrected.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Bluemoon at its finest.